SUMMARY KEYWORDS

fashion, challenged, work, color, feel, brand, fabrics, understand, business, conversation, industry, people, black, wearing, wanted, put, absolutely, product, june, talent

SPEAKERS

Amber Cabral, Shawn Pean

Amber Cabral 00:00

Three. Privilege is all around you. It shows up in your clothes, where you live, the places you frequent, your network capital, and even how you spend your money. It’s useless until you recognize it. So it’s time to stop feeling guilty and figure out how to use your privilege to make an impact. Welcome to guilty privilege. Welcome back to another episode of guilty privilege. My name is Amber Cabral, and today I have the privilege of hosting Mr Sean ping. He is the founder of June 79 and trust me, you definitely want to get out there and get this look. We’re going to talk to him about his brand, as well as the work he’s done with several other brands in the fashion industry, and the impact of having equity in design and branding. Hey, Sean,

Shawn Pean 00:52

hi.

Amber Cabral 00:53

How are you

Shawn Pean 00:53

I’m good. How are you

Amber Cabral 00:54

listen? Let me tell you how much I love you. Oh, I have been telling people about my podcast coming up, and I was like, I am so excited to talk to Sean, because you are like my brother from another month. This is true. We have such an amazing like friendship, and it’s not been that long.

Shawn Pean 01:09

It has not

Amber Cabral 01:10

but listen,

Shawn Pean 01:11

but impactful, very impactful,

Amber Cabral 01:13

super impactful. We give each other great feedback. Absolutely. We got a lot of laughs. So I’m hoping we’re gonna bring that energy to this tub. Why wouldn’t we? Okay? All right. All right, I’m ready. Okay, so I’m gonna start with a little bit of serious stuff first. Okay, the coughing is not the serious stuff. All right, so I’m gonna start with some serious stuff first. There are not a lot of visible, successful heterosexual black men in fashion. Okay, yeah. So I would love to know because you are a black man in fashion, and you’ve been around, okay, for a long time, yes. And you have been with some really fantastic, um companies, yeah, all right, some great brands. I would love to know what it has been like, you know, living in your identity in that space, because it’s not necessarily one that’s well represented.

Shawn Pean 02:05

It is not well represented. You are, right? There’s not many of us. But for me, it’s, you know, I started off just being my authentic self, right? And I think that as a heterosexual black male, that it has its positives and it has its negatives. And so I’ve had to adjust certain parts, you know, throughout my career, how I communicate. I’m a kid from Brooklyn, so for me, it’s, you know, I’m going to be very direct with a little bit of accents and use and theirs and, you know, all that. So, you know, a lot of that had to shift over over time. But for me, I think once I understood the landscape that I was in and in fashion where, you know, there’s a huge female presence, there’s a huge LGBTQ presence within our fashion industry. And for me, I I had to make sure that people understood who I am when I step into the room. And so I think, you know, it presents challenges and it presents opportunities. The opportunities are that people understand that what you’re saying is because you took time to understand it, yeah. And so that’s something that I’ve always done in my career. You know, I think the opportunities within that are that not everyone wants to receive it. I think, you know, being that voice in the room, not everyone appreciates it because they don’t understand my point of view. So I found myself getting challenged a lot in subject matters in which I knew and felt that I was the expert, because I took time to, like, delve into the business and or speak to businesses in a way, and from a point of view that’s different than theirs. Yeah, and, you know, people challenge that, and in some cases, people fear what they don’t understand. In most cases, absolutely in every case, people fear what they don’t understand. And I don’t think I was understood when I came in this industry with my point of view, which, to me, is a balance of, you know, rationality, a balance of creativity and a balance of business acumen. I understood the business, but I, you know, very early on, I like to wear color, yeah, we’re in color today, right? That was big. And back then it was like, Oh, so you must be gay? I was like, No, I’m very much a heterosexual male, but I like wearing color, right? Like, that doesn’t make me, that doesn’t put me into this bucket. Oh, but you’re in fashion. And, yeah. And so I, you know, that was a lot that happened a lot throughout my career. And, you know, it was just navigating it one day at a time, you know. And one of the things for me, I think that led to my success, I never took anything personal. Oh, I love that. I never took anything personal at the end of the day. It, you know, business was business. So if someone came at me a certain way, you shake it off, and then you. Manage it from a business perspective. And, you know, I didn’t have, I don’t have the same leeway as some of my counterparts. When you’re the only person coloring That’s right, you don’t have like, you know, my set of challenges are very different. Your risk is greater. My Risk was, was far greater, right? I understood that early on, because not just for me, but for others that look like me, what tends to happen with if you’re black and in this industry is that people categorize you. So if I, who am on the business side, a decision maker, if I mess up, usually it’s like, Well, see, we can’t bring black people in because of this, it wasn’t my individual mistake, collectively, all of our mistakes, all of our mistakes, right? And so witnessing that, and seeing that, it, you know, I had to then operate at a very high level, yeah, you know? And just make sure that when I came, and I came and buttoned up, I knew what I was talking about, and I became a student of this industry. Yeah. I mean, I think that’s what, what’s led me down the path that I am now. Yeah.

Amber Cabral 06:04

So you said something about challenges, because when we first met, I definitely challenged you. You did our first conversation, that’s right. So you want to talk about that conversation so the people can know that I challenge everybody, just so you know you

Shawn Pean 06:16

do challenge everybody, but I think at the time, you challenged me in a way that it caught me first, it caught me off guard, because I thought I was speaking and helping a situation by lending my voice, but really, what you helped me understand is that it may have fixed a problem, but it wasn’t fixing a pattern. That’s right. And so that conversation became the reason why we became so cool. I was like, Yo real, recognize real, and you are right, and that’s what’s up. And I and you remember I said, I said, your voice needs to be heard in every room.

Amber Cabral 06:56

And we are here, and we are here, so I really appreciate what you said about, you know, just not feeling like there’s a lot of grace, especially being, you know, just in your identity, right? Which is why I opened with that question, because I recognize, obviously, being a black woman, you know, there are a lot of rooms, you know, in my corporate career and also as a consultant, that have been difficult for me. So I can definitely connect to that. But there are often times I find that I can open some doors. So have you found that that’s been something you’ve experienced as well, like, you know, just as a result of, you know, the way that you show up in a space, particularly this space, the fashion space, that you’ve been able to open some doors. I know the answer to this question, but I’d like you to talk a little bit about it.

Shawn Pean 07:42

Yeah, no, for sure, I’ve, I’ve always been about opening doors up for our people. Even when I was on the business side, I always hired people of color, and I made sure that they had an opportunity within my at least my teams on my side of the organization. And it’s funny, I used to get made fun of it a lot. And I remember I, I, my team consisted of three. It was me plus three. So it was four of us on a buying team and three of us. I hired two people of color, and I was, you know, oh, you got United Nations over there. Wow, with the comments that were made. And so, you know, it kind of, you know, you get taken back a little bit. But then I realized that what I was doing was exactly what needed to be done. Because, if that’s your comment, versus are they qualified, are they smart? Like, what you didn’t ask me, why they Yeah, oh, you just assume because, because you’re not used to that. You’re not used to seeing, you know, a team within this environment that there’s multiple people of color, there’s usually just one in the room, exactly. And so I wanted to break that stigma and break that norm, and I’ve done that throughout my career. And so the challenges will come, because I think the eye hasn’t adjusted yet. That’s true. You know, when you look at fashion and when you look at at the lower level, if you’re looking at it from a triangle perspective, there’s tons of people of color. As you get further up, there’s less roles, senior management roles there aren’t it’s you’ll be hard pressed to find a black CEO running a Fashion Organization. Meanwhile, when you look at the customer profile, absolutely. You know, we’re a strong majority of that, right? In any luxury house, in any in any classification of business, I think the consumption that people of color have are pretty high. But the decision makers who, who manage that are not so, not of color, right? And so I think that there’s always going to be a disconnect, and it’s a shame, but I think, you know, the advancement of our people within this space is huge, and I think there’s more voices that need to be heard. And it’s funny I and I tell you a story, because in 2018 In 2017 2018 I got a Bragg award, business Achievement Award, and which, for me, was a big deal, because I don’t, I don’t receive many of them, but Bragg was the first to recognize me as a business leader within this industry. And brag has been a very popular, not popular, but they’ve been a very dominant um dei um organization for 40 years started even before the conversation set it off. Bragg has been around and supporting and mentoring people of color for decades. Yeah, and I’m speaking, but I spoke about in my speech all the people that I’ve worked with, people of color who have not been recognized. That was part of my speech, and I listed off name after name after name. It’s actually the reason I remember someone just sent it to me recently, but I went through names of all these people that I worked with and how talented they were, and none of them ever got their just due within our industry, there were the three names I could rattle off right now should be CEOs and men like of companies, yeah, and they would absolutely crush it, but their opportunities just never came about. Yeah, not because of the work that they put and they did amazing work. They drove businesses, they they, they far exceeded what was asked of them, and still the opportunity was not given to them. Yeah, and so I think, you know, it’s incumbent upon, like, just me and those in our industry, even though I’m I now kind of laugh, because I think a lot of it is lip service. That’s just me, but we have to, we have to keep pushing that forward.

Amber Cabral 11:39

Hey there if you’re listening and finding value in today’s episode and want to add a couple tools to your toolbox, I’ve written a couple books that you might find useful. My first book, allies and advocates is to help you be able to show up as an ally or an advocate and to help create a more inclusive and equitable culture, whether that’s in your own life or in the workplace. My second book is a little different. It’s called say more about that. What say more about that does is help you to push back advocate and actually challenge. It gives you tips, tools and language to help you navigate difficult discussions, whether that’s in your personal space or your workspaces. So either of these tools sound like they might be useful for you. You can scroll down into the show notes and click the link and get your own copy of either allies and advocates, or say more about that, back to today’s episode. Yeah, absolutely. So a couple things you said brought a couple things to mind. So one, I do think, going back to what you said earlier about, you know, being the only one in the room and missing the collaborativeness of seeing your identity represented, the the impact that representation can make right and like wanting that and being deliberate and trying to help create that, whether that was on your team or, yeah, you know, how we were thinking about the consumers that you you know, were Working with all of those things about buying for you know, it almost makes me wonder if you know why we see some other things that we don’t necessarily want to see. That kind of cohesiveness happen, like I know you and I had a conversation where, you know, shortly after George Floyd, when a lot of the big department stores were trying to figure out how to highlight black creators, creatives of many different types, right? Clothing, beauty products, etc. And there was almost like this section that was just this mashup of things, yeah. And we were like, No, I agree, not like that, right? And I wonder how much of things like that happening can feel like to a big brand. This is me trying to give you that sense of inclusiveness. I’m putting you with there is representation here when what we’re looking for it in is where there’s the power, not just where the product rests, absolutely

Shawn Pean 13:55

no, but look, I think it’s both sides, right? And I think in in, in those cases, the department stores that we’re seeing we’re creating all black area who wants to be part of it. Weren’t necessarily trying to solve a problem. I think that’s more forward facing, right? We want our customers to see that we’re that we’re we’re addressing this, right? But that’s not addressing the issue, no at all. And so I was approached about it, and I said, No, thank you, because that’s not what I wanted my brand to to be about, you know? And it’s funny, I think it’s about equity, right? And when I first launched my own brand, I got challenged, because I had all black models within my campaign, my first campaign, and, you know, I was trying, why don’t you have more diversity? And I said, Well, it’s about the product, and the person that challenged me would work for a big brand. And I said, when you work for this brand and they had all white models, did you ask them to bring in a black one? And he didn’t respond. He was like, well, it was different. Back then, nothing’s changed. It was about the product. Then it’s about. The product. Now the eye will adjust. If you’re looking at my product and you was like, it’s not for me because the black eye is wearing it, then you’re, you’re like, that’s a very short sighted way of looking at it, right? Yeah, it’s discriminatory. Flat out, it is, it is, but, you know, and I wanted the eye to adjust in that situation that people can see, you know, five black models wearing our product, and they’re like, Wow, they all look great, right? I want to look like that. I want to feel like that, right, right? Like fashion. The other side of it is that we’re invoking emotion within the product, especially in luxury. I think for me, clothing is like consumption, right? No one walks out their house without it. Yeah, it’s like, everyone needs to eat, right? And so just depending on how you eat, you either eat McDonald’s or you eat no boo, right? And so based on that, that’s how

Amber Cabral 15:44

you know, high and low, but

Shawn Pean 15:47

that’s how you shop, exactly, right? Either you’re, you’re, hey, I’m a Zara person, or I’m a Cuccinelli person, or I’m a Chanel person, right? And that’s how you that’s your consumption, right? And you may mix your Nike tech fit with the Chanel bag, and that’s how you go out, you know, grab bagels in the morning. Who knows? But and to me, that’s why fashion plays an integral part in in society culture, but more importantly, how we make people feel. And to me, the biggest call outs are, how are we making people feel right? And I think that, and that’s the old Maya Angelou quote that I’ve always loved, but I don’t think that the powers that be truly understand that, yeah, and I think that’s been the biggest disconnect, like you keep throwing these things at us, but they’re not. They don’t want to be connected

Amber Cabral 16:44

to us. Yeah, I want to talk about that for sure. I think, to that end, I’ve had a number of conversations with folks that work in fashion. You know that, folks that you know I know, that you know you and I both have talked to where it feels like there is a conversation that is happening in front of the camera, and then also a conversation that’s happening separately. And so you get these kind of, you know, these side remarks that are like, oh, you know, but these folks, you know, just need so many things, and how am I supposed to help them? And instead of having the perspective that you have access and privilege and power and that can open doors. You don’t necessarily have to give me anything specifically, other than your vote, you know, or your you know, willingness to open an opportunity. And I think we tend to, we tend to undervalue the power that they have, and they tend to undervalue the influence that we have. Like we look at them and say, Oh, well, we can do it on our own, and we’ll figure it out, which isn’t necessarily the best solution, right? Because we’ve got all these power brokers. And then I think the other side is that they can look at folks that are the, you know, the black creators, the black designers, the black leaders in organizations, and go, Well, you know, I think we can still do it without having to necessarily do that work. And so it doesn’t feel important. It doesn’t feel like I need to focus. And so ultimately, we end up in the same kind of cycle, right where we want to put on a show that isn’t really what’s happening on the other side. Yeah,

Shawn Pean 18:09

and that’s happened historically. This is not the first time this has happened in history. It’s happened over and over and over again, exactly. And the crazy part is that we still find ourselves having these conversations, yeah, you know. And especially when it comes to fashion, the thing that really burns me is that fashion is an industry supposed to be the most liberal, absolutely forward thinking industry. Yeah,

Amber Cabral 18:31

have fun. Have fun with your clothes.

Shawn Pean 18:33

But we’re still behind, absolutely, you know. And the thing that really bothers me is that we act like we’re ahead, oh yeah, we’re probably the furthest, because we want

Amber Cabral 18:42

to tell you who gets to have fun with their clothes, and how you get to have fun with your clothes, and if your clothes meet the standard that I’ve decided they should, and if your identity should be wearing those clothes, and all of those things I love, that’s yeah, all of that’s right. So that leads me to you have worked at some, you know, major fashion houses, but you now have your own brand. You are wearing your brand today. I am wearing your brand, 79 June 79 I would love for you to talk to me about June 79 and then imma ask you a couple

Shawn Pean 19:07

questions about happy to June 79 it is a brand that allows people to represent the best version of themselves. That’s what we do. And no, but I started June 79 because honestly, I think that the world has changed. And, you know, it’s funny during, even before the pandemic, I, you know, you catch yourself, you know, understanding what’s happening in the world and looking forward. And I was kind of, I was in this purgatory of understanding, do I want to go back to my old world, or what’s next to me? I’m on the other side of 40. What is the next part of my life look like? Right, like I broke, I broken down. My existence in life, in quarters. So like, zero to 20 is q1 20 to 40 is q2 okay, 40 to 60 is q3 and 60 to 80 is q4 and if I get to Q, you know, yeah. And. So I’ve this first half of my life. I’ve learned a lot. I’ve gained a lot. I’ve transitioned from, you know, very humble beginnings to a world that I didn’t think that I belong in, but honestly, it’s a world that I was probably most comfortable in. And you’ve changed and so and I’ve been able to have impact in that right, in this industry and in my own world, and even with my own kids and family. And now I’m in q3 and I was like, Alright, have time’s over. Like, what’s next? And I thought of all the ideas and how I pushed across ideas forward, and the challenges and and the the pushback that I got, but it made a lot of people money. And so I realized, you know, for me, the world’s changing. Do I take this idea to somebody, or do I create it myself? If I can endure, I am positive that I can build a brand for the future, and that’s what June 79 is about. Because when you think about, you know, how we move from professional to social settings, it vacillates right? We’re in between both, but the old structural norms don’t exist. Do I need to wear a suit or three piece suit to a meeting? I don’t, right, I don’t, but I still need to be professional, yes, and I still need to represent myself in a way that allows the message to be as loud as and clear as my appearance. Yeah, right, that I’m about this business, that I’m about this world. So we started off, I started off in the basement designing, and I wanted something that that looked like a suit, but didn’t that felt like a suit, but didn’t look like a suit, yes. And so which we came up with the tagline, you know, pursuit of the unsuit. But really, you know, all of our fabrics are Italian fabrics, the same fabrics that you find in suiting. That’s right, and transition that into what I think is a more comfortable body, our pants, you know, people love our fit, because even our little cell phone pocket is there’s more that’s happened, there’s functionality, there’s fashion, and then there’s comfort. I wanted to blend all these worlds together, everything from like, you know, tailor clothing, to athleisure to sportswear, and it’s and we’re not streetwear. We are not a streetwear brand. And I say that because when I said, you know, I have a brand, they were like, Oh, is it streetwear? And so people just assume, T shirts

Amber Cabral 22:18

Brooklyn, absolutely, I

Shawn Pean 22:20

know. But we’re trying to dress people up like, I don’t want people, I want people to walk into rooms and people want to know about you. It’s not like, Oh, he’s wearing that logo. Oh, we know what he’s about. Yes, you know. And I think, you know, our society got caught up in lazy luxury, which is a lot of logos and, oh, if I wear LV on my chest, people think I’m balling. It’s like, no. People, that’s not what their perceived notion of you is, right? But if you wear, and there’s no knock on LV, I just thought about that, no knock on LV. But you know, if you wear, if you show up in June, 79 people like, Oh, who’s that guy? I want to know about you, and I you know, or her, you know. And so this brand speaks to that, and speaks to not the way in which we dress today, but the way in which you know, we dress tomorrow. So, yeah.

Amber Cabral 23:11

So what I love about June 79 is that the fabrics are incredible, yeah. Like this feels to your point like a suit. This feels nothing like any you know, jogging material. And it’s layered, it’s well lined, like I have an experience with this. What made you decide to take this is not fabric you would think of for something that is going to be comfortable? Correct, correct. What made you decide to say, this can be comfortable.

Shawn Pean 23:43

Intentionality, you know, that’s all intentional in terms of the product. I wanted to be, we wanted comfort, we wanted style, we wanted all the different elements that people experience throughout the day to be in your clothing. And so there’s times that you need to be comfortable, there’s times that you need to look great, and there’s times that you need functionality. So how do we you know, we were intentional about that. So for me, it was about working with the best Mills, right? That can create fabric that also had a little stretch in it, but also we’re refined fabrics, yeah. And so once we identified that, it’s like all right. Now we know our fabrics, we know we want to work with. How are we putting it into the product and making sure that everyone that puts this on has the same visceral reaction? Yeah? And so yeah, we were intentional about it. Hey, I

Amber Cabral 24:29

hope you’re enjoying today’s episode of guilty privilege. My name is Amber Cabral, and I wanted to share with you that I actually do this for a living. So if you’re interested in coaching or training or workshops or even a conversation like this one, you can reach out to me and my team by going to cabralco.com that website link is in the show notes, and we can work with you to create an experience, to bring conversations that are sometimes difficult to have to your workplace or to your team. Now back to the show. Okay, so you’ve been a leader in big brain. Brands. You’ve created your own brand, you know, you’ve seen a lot of the fashion world. You also work with a lot of organizations that are focused on trying to, you know, bring in black talent or highlight, you know, creators of color and all of that. You’ve lended your voice to lots of conversations in that space. What I would love to kind of hear from you know, what is it that you think is obstructive? Like, what are the mindsets? Because what I would like to address in this podcast is, you know what, what potentially, are the privileged mindsets that people aren’t noticing that are keeping them from engaging, recruiting, you know, finding ways to pull in this vast world of talent that you’ve been spending lots of time in your career trying to make sure you’re supporting and giving visibility to. I’ve been spending lots of time in my career doing the same in a different industry, right? Yeah, so what? What do you think some of those mindsets are that are getting in the way?

Shawn Pean 25:55

I think it’s stereotypes. I think people have stereotypes that just don’t allow them to see past certain points of people. You know, when you think of people as a whole, we’re not understanding people the right way, especially in fashion. You know, I think that, you know, when I started in this industry, luxury only hired people who were like that came in looking posh and things like that, right? But if someone came in just because they couldn’t afford what that brand was, doesn’t mean that they don’t understand how to then be an asset to you as a company, right? Right? And so I think that this old, this kind of old guard mindset is for us to sell people like us. We need to hire people like us. When you don’t, what you really need is a very diverse group. If everyone thinks like you, no one’s gonna think outside the box and allow you to stay relevant. And so, you know, I always say, have the courage to listen to the youth, yeah. And I remember,

Amber Cabral 26:57

I love that. Have the courage to listen to the youth. Yeah, that is it.

Shawn Pean 27:02

Because what you’ll learn and what you understand is kind of like how in the early 2000s when the kids were teaching the grandparents how to use the internet, yeah, absolutely had to listen to them, right? No, they didn’t know how you know. Or it’s like with Facebook, when companies wanted to understand how to use it and advertise on it, it was usually the younger generation that had to explain to them, right? It’s like, oh, we use it for this. We use it to communicate this, you know, ABC, X, Y and Z, and so I think that, um, you know, these gatekeepers aren’t looking at talent, especially talent of color, and saying you’re very different than anything we have in this office. You belong in this office.

Amber Cabral 27:39

Yeah, I actually have a young person who works for me. She’s, um, you know, I always tease her and say, You’re my Gen Z, or I need your opinion, because she’s young, but she’s even said too, like, I mean, repeatedly, I will never work in a corporation. You are the closest that will get to a corporation. So to your point, like, the mindsets are different. What people are looking for in terms of support is different. The ideas that they’re going to bring to what they want the future to look like is different. And we, of all people, should know they are shaping what’s coming, because we did it. We know where we are today. Absolutely they’re going to shape what’s next. And so it is super important, if you want to to your point, stay relevant, that you are figuring out how to tap into the young folks. Yeah,

Shawn Pean 28:18

and they look at corporations very differently, like the days of staying 25 years and getting over Rolex are over and they’re happy to leave and have three jobs in two years to get where they’re going. That’s right, yeah. I mean, that wasn’t a case.

Amber Cabral 28:31

And their peace of mind, Oh, absolutely. And their self care and their self care and hey,

Shawn Pean 28:35

and unlimited PTO, that’s it. Instagram and I want to work remote. Yes, you know, I mean, it’s all these things that are being asked for, and companies saying, well, we don’t want to do it. And, okay, that’s fine. Then you’re not going to have talent in your you’re not going to

Amber Cabral 28:50

have the talent. That’s 100% Yeah, you’re not going to have the talent. And the same goes for attire. So one of the other things I really love about your brand is that, to your point, it is casual, but not right? It’s still very neat. You I can go from a thing that is, you know, incredibly professional, to something that is very casual. And, I mean, even with a simple change of shoes, yep, right? I can throw your joggers on with some pumps, or I can put on some sneakers. And I think that we live lives now that want that kind of versatility

Shawn Pean 29:18

absolutely, you know, it’s funny, I remember, like, staying up late and watching the National Geographic, and it was talking about the Earth and the axis. And if the earth was, like, 1% off the axis, the entire like, the our weather patterns would completely change. Oh, wow, right? Like, just, just the way, you know, certain times of the year where it’s warm or that would change. That’s what the pandemic has caused, yeah, like, our pattern of life has absolutely changed, and so why are we sticking with these, these, these, these kind of relic, pre covid relics, of the way we need to show up, yeah? Like, for you, like you said, a simple change of shoes. I don’t want to feel overdressed or unaddressed in any situation that I’m in. I want to be able to go to. A meeting that is super business, and then turn around meet my friend for launch, and then turn around and meet my other friends for drinks in the same outfit, and not have to worry about hot light looking either one, because I know that. I I, you know, I’m dressed appropriately

Amber Cabral 30:14

for all of them. I’m pulled together. Yeah, so And listen, y’all, if you get a chance, please go out to the June 79 site and check out. I mean, we’re gonna put in the show notes, show notes, how to follow Sean, but I definitely want you to check out the product, because it is for men. It is, it is for women. I’ve seen women with, like this jacket with a cute little bralette top, and, you know, the shorts. It’s, listen, there’s a vibe.

Shawn Pean 30:36

Thank you. It’s a vibe, for sure.

Amber Cabral 30:38

It is a vibe.

Shawn Pean 30:39

We also sold at sacks too. So lots of sacks for picking us up. We’re in seven doors at Saks, and one’s in Atlanta and one is in Atlanta. We’re in the Atlanta store, and they’ve done a great job of promoting and talking to our brand and getting it out there. So, you know, shout out to them, and the stores that carry us too is huge. And so I know we’re excited. We’re excited on the journey that we’re on what we’re building. It’s different. We’re not following what the other brands are doing. And we’re kind of, you know, paving and defining our own space and fashion.

Amber Cabral 31:09

Yeah, and you deserve that. All right, a couple more questions for you. One, what do we what can we expect next?

Shawn Pean 31:13

Yeah, I am working on, we’re wrapping up our spring 24 so that’s going to be, it’s just, you know, taking it to a whole nother level, just continuing to stay flat. Okay? And so I’m excited to kind of show the world are the things that we have expanded into, because I think that there’s just so much more, like we’re barely scratching the surface with the unsuit and really defining this, what I call a tailored, casual segment of business, yeah. And then we have some collaborations that we’re working on, some sports inspired themes that I’m excited to talk to once the contract is signed, okay and so, and just building and really, you know, as we continue to build and grow, you know, and I want to find talent out there and bring them into our organization and build with them, yeah, you know. So that’s, you know, that’s what I’m excited about. Yeah, I

Amber Cabral 32:05

love that you always have some quality young folks around you, so I appreciate that always. All right, my last question this show is called guilty privilege, because I think people feel guilty about their privilege, or they don’t know they have it, yeah? And so, you know, Privilege is not something that’s, you know, really for you to feel bad about, but sometimes we do. Yeah, so I would love to know what privilege Do you have that you refuse to feel guilty about, that

Shawn Pean 32:28

I refuse to feel guilty about. Refuse to feel guilty about being smart.

Amber Cabral 32:33

Listen, say more about that,

Shawn Pean 32:37

please. I refuse people you know, and in some cases, when you’re the only person of color in the room. I got challenged on just being smart and being intelligent and being able to articulate myself and my I won’t curse, but you’ll get a big you know, you for even, you know, questioning what I bring to the table. Yeah, you know, because I’m at the table for a reason, yeah. So why question why I’m here versus understanding what I’m bringing to it, absolutely. And so, yeah,

Amber Cabral 33:07

I would also, you know, like to share that sometimes that smart thing is intercultural, like being the smart black person among the black people. Sometimes can be a little tough. I

Shawn Pean 33:16

mean, it’s tough there too, yeah, with our own people, yeah. Look, I, it’s funny, I was, I was having a conversation yesterday with someone about, like, when I first graduated college, and I came back home, and, you know, the guys I grew up with were just like, Yo, you on that side now. And it was like, You know that old Chris Rock, you get more respect coming out of jail than you do. That’s right? And I felt that. And so, you know, but it’s one that at that point, I didn’t care, because the path that I wanted to go down, I knew it looked different than the path that I started on, yeah. And so I was happy to go down that path. I was happy to kind of, so, you know, in some cases it’d be your own people, but you feel it more when it’s from others, absolutely, you know. So we

Amber Cabral 34:02

kind of get it when it’s our own people. We get it. We don’t love it, but,

Shawn Pean 34:05

I mean, but we grew up with that right, like navigator everyone you know you know how to navigate it. Everyone’s gonna clown each other, everyone’s gonna cry and you know you’re gonna catch these jokes and you keep it moving, yep. But when it comes from others, it’s different, because you don’t have a right to tell me, yes,

Amber Cabral 34:22

that Exactly, yeah, yeah, you don’t. You don’t have Yeah, you don’t. You don’t get the grace.

Shawn Pean 34:27

You don’t get the grace, you won’t catch the smoke. That’s right, exactly. Well,

Amber Cabral 34:31

thank you for coming to chat with me today.

Shawn Pean 34:33

Thank you for having me. This is fantastic time to hang out again. Yeah, we will, for sure. All right, I’ll talk to you soon. All right. You