SUMMARY KEYWORDS

fibroids, women, doctor, understand, people, happening, share, story, talk, uterus, tanika, feel, hysterectomy, amber, privilege, advocate, body, periods, public health issue, conversation

SPEAKERS

Amber Cabral, Tanika

 

Amber Cabral  00:00

Welcome, Tanika,

 

Tanika  00:01

thank you, Amber.

 

Amber Cabral  00:02

I’m so excited about you being here. I’m so excited to be I feel like we’re gonna have a conversation about something that people don’t talk about Yes, and I feel like you do talk about it. And I think that the fact that you are willing and I am willing should make for a very valuable dialog. So let’s, let’s first start out by you just giving me a quick snapshot into your project, the white dress project, I’d like you to talk about that. You also work at CNN as a content producer, and I’m sure that that’s lovely, yeah, but I’d like to focus you know, most of our conversation will touch on CNN, but I really want to hear about the white dress project. So can you tell us what that is and how it got started. So

 

Tanika  00:42

first of all, thank you so much for having me. I’m really, really excited to talk to you. I feel like, you know, you meet people on social media, and you meet people through friends, and then when you meet in person, you’re like, thrilled when their energy is the same Exactly. They’re just as beautiful. So I really appreciate you having these conversations and having me, I’m glad, so glad to talk about the white dress project, because it really is my baby. I feel like it is what is my purpose. I feel like it is what I’m here to do, which is advocate for people who are managing life with fibroids and managing life with reproductive health issues. And as you so eloquently said, you know, it really can take us on a journey. Yeah, and I think when we put ourselves in spaces where women like us, who are career, women who are social, women have a lot of things going on, and we can also find the importance in sharing our stories, this very difficult story to share, I think it’s so important. Yeah, so the white dress project was started in 2014 I’m so thrilled that this is going to be our 10th year in years, honey. I am so happy because it was birthed from just my own personal story. I was suffering with uterine fibroids from probably around the age of 15 or so, and really, really heavy periods. Always bloated. I was always that girl that you know had an extra backpack because I had to have my things with me, right? All my pads, my leggings, extra pair underwear. So I realized that that was just like a way of life for me. And, you know, fast forward to getting married, going through school, all of those things, I was just still managing life with fibroids, and I felt like it was normal. I felt like this is just a plight of a woman. I felt like my mother told me that this is how it goes. She had fibroids. And I was like, well, it is what it is, right? I guess this is what’s got to deal with. It exactly the cards that I’ve been told. Yeah, and I really figured out that, no, this is a part of my story. My story deserves to be told. And if I’m going through this, what is Amber going through? Exactly right like, what are other people going through? What are other women in my circle going through? I can’t be the only one that’s canceling on a Friday night. Right period is out of control, exactly. Um, so I decided to start this organization after my first myomectomy, when I had 27 fibroids removed, and, yeah, girl, it was that sentiment exactly, just hard, devastating. Didn’t know how so many information

 

Amber Cabral  03:37

is a mess, right? Yeah, you don’t really know, like, you don’t.

 

Tanika  03:42

So you’re you’re not only getting a diagnosis, but then you’re like, how I have so many and then you’re like, Why ain’t nobody tell me, right? And a lot of times, what they tell you in terms of how many they tell you, is different than what they actually find when they go in. Yeah, that’s yes, yes. So once you actually do the testing right, or actually have the surgery, right then the number usually doubles, yes. And that happens in so many cases. I rarely hear, Oh, you know, I had nine and they took out nine, yeah, it doesn’t have 1822, exactly four, yes. Um, so I really started the organization for myself. I wanted the support for myself. I didn’t understand why there were no walks runs. Nobody was asking me for money. There was no national campaign, and people really didn’t deem fibroids as a public health issue, correct, and I was just like

 

Amber Cabral  04:37

not feeling it, and I want to share my story, because I understand being a journalist the power of sharing, absolutely, absolutely, yeah. So I our friend Giannis connected us, yeah, right. And so she’s also a guest on the podcast, and I was, I mean, she’s magnetic, so we were probably by. Come to me in some way, but she is when we met, we ended up having a conversation because I was in the process of really realizing that, like something was gonna have to be done. Yeah, and I mentioned it to her because I wasn’t afraid to talk about it. And I was also very shocked by how few people were talking about it, because I’m like, you, you do see all the data that says that there are a lot of women that have fibroids. There are a lot of black women, yes, but what you’re not getting 90% of literally, and you’re not but you’re not getting the conversations around it, how they were discovered, how they’re impacting them, like you do hear heavy periods, but you’re not really understanding like, the degree to which there’s, like, life changing happening exactly. And so I felt like, because I didn’t necessarily have some of those things until later, yeah, I honestly, when I went in to see a doctor and I was told I had fibroids when I was probably, I don’t know, probably 26 but they were like, Oh, they’re tiny. It’s nothing. It’s, you can watch and wait. Yeah, we’ll watch. No big deal. No explanation about what they even were. I was also busy, so I didn’t dig into it. You’re a career woman. If someone had just told me that watch and wait meant if your periods get heavier, if you know, like, what am I watching for? I never got any of that information. And

 

Tanika  06:19

the thing about watching and waiting is that a fibroids job is to grow, to grow. So if we know this information right, we know that. Why are

 

Amber Cabral  06:28

we waiting? What? What are we watching for it to do what it’s supposed to do? Yeah, exactly. So. So, yes, exactly i So fast forward. You know, last year I ended up, I went into one doctor’s office with the intention of saying, Okay, I know I have fibroids. I you know, just want to know what my options are. And the immediate solution was, you have to have hysterectomy. And I was like, Well, I do not want children then, so I can appreciate that. But also, no, this is an organ in my body. I don’t know that I would like for you to take it out, right? So can you just take out the thing that is the problem that seems like it would be the right step. Well, you know, if we do that, it’s, you know, we’re gonna miss some and so then we’ll have to go back, or they grow back, or, like, I mean, there was just all of this excuse for why I had to have a hysterectomy, right? So I was really put off by that. Left the doctor’s office, ended up getting referred somewhere else, went to another doctor’s office. Oh, I also was told that my hysterectomy had, I had to have, like, the hip to hip cut. And I was like, yeah, that’s out of the question. That was really the thing that made me go, Look, I ended up going to another doctor and the second doctor almost similar experience. You know, I also was really concerned, because I had only had an ultrasound, and you can’t see an ultrasound, like, it’s not because ultrasound is, like, it’s relying on movement, which is why you can see babies so well on an ultrasound. But, like, fibroids don’t swim, you know, they’re they say. So I’m like, you can’t even see them Well, exactly.

 

Tanika  07:52

And I just want to make a point about, uh, testing and imaging here, yeah, always ask for MRI,

 

Amber Cabral  07:59

and I did. And so I did not know that, but I have been literally telling people that since I had my experience, because I was told I had two. You have two. One is in an inconvenient place. That’s what’s probably bothering you. Let’s go ahead and just, you know, give you a hysterectomy that you don’t have to worry about them ever, especially since you don’t want kids. I’m like, so I have two things, and you want to take my whole, right, my whole situation, like, I was like, that doesn’t make sense. So went to a third doctor. When I got to the third doctor, and I explained to her what was going on, and she asked me about a few other symptoms I was having. I didn’t even realize my period was heavy, because we don’t really talk about, we’re just starting to see information about what a heavy period looks like. So I didn’t know it was wrong. And not to mention, everybody had one. So to me, I’m having a normal thing. Yeah. She was the one that was like, ah, yeah, let’s have an MRI. When I saw the images from the MRI, I was like, I can’t believe people are getting surgery of any kind without having something that gives them this perspective Exactly. And most people don’t get an MRI. It’s happening. So blew my mind. Yeah,

 

Tanika  09:03

and it’s it’s sad, it’s heartbreak, it’s hurtful. And think about you Amber, you have the resources. You have, yes, the privilege to do it right. You have the PTO days, whatever is needed. Think about all of those women who don’t have those things right. And look at this person in the white coat with this level of authority exactly, and they say, Well, my doctor told me exactly, and then that becomes their only choice Exactly. So you and I had the liberty to go to three, four doctors exactly, and make an inform and find someone that we were comfortable with Exactly. A lot of people don’t have that. No, a lot of folks don’t have that. And I’ll be also very candid, my

 

Amber Cabral  09:42

doctors were all black. All the doctors I went, they were here in Atlanta, they were all black. And so, you know, people were like, Oh, you need to make sure you go to a black doctor. I’m like, yeah, that this is bigger than that. Yeah, it’s not. It’s the black doctors are also a part of some of the things that are happening that are really dangerous to me. And so I ultimately ended up finding and I’m so glad that I. Had an MRI because they discovered I had something called adenomyosis, which means that my uterus will just continue to grow. Yeah, when my uterus came out, it was the size of a four month pregnant uterus. It needed to go, yeah. I ended up having to have a hysterectomy anyway, but I was able to have a laparoscopic hysterectomy, yes, which is for me, much better, right? It was your choice, and it was my choice, and I was making an informed decision. It wasn’t like, oh, there are these two kind of blurry things on this picture, right? We should just take it because you don’t want kids. And I’m like, wait, like, that’s not, I’m not even okay with that. So, you know, Giannis and I kind of had had some conversation beforehand, and then she had mentioned you to me then, and so when I, of course, when the second season of podcast came around, I was like, she absolutely asked her to do this, because it’s like, I do think that there are starting to be conversations. But then I shared my story on Instagram, the number of women watched out to me privately and were scared to talk about it. Like, I don’t know if that’s like, I don’t know if it’s generational, I don’t know if it’s like, I don’t know if it’s a combination of, like, cultural, I

 

Tanika  11:06

think it’s all of those things. I think I can just speak for myself as a Jamaican woman, my mother always taught me, like, you don’t talk about issues below the belt, like you’re not If you do so, you’re not deemed classy. You’re not a sophisticated woman. And of course, Darlene, you want to be a sophisticated woman, right? Like I raised you to be a sophisticated woman. So I think a lot of that happens where we are just taught, if we want any level of dignity, integrity, class, it’s just not something we talk about. And I think that is so unfortunate, because it limits us, and it almost makes us really traumatized about our own body, right? So then you feel like your body is selling you out. I felt

 

Amber Cabral  11:51

like my body was selling me. Oh, yeah, I could not put on clothes. I could not understand. I was like, I I don’t eat enough to be getting bigger, right? But my body was, like, operating like I was pregnant, you know? So I’m like, why? I don’t know why I can’t fit clothes. I am drinking water. I’m doing the working out. I am trying, why? What’s happening it was, it literally felt like I was being but I gotten to a point where I decided I just wasn’t gonna beat myself up about it. But I was not okay, like, I wasn’t comfortable at all.

 

Tanika  12:19

Imagine that entire mental health exact process that happens, deterioration, that happens right? Because you start to tell yourself, am I not doing enough? It’s kind of like, what happens, you know, when a woman has a miscarriage, it’s always like, what? What was it that I could have done? Yes. So you feel like you’re in this battle with your body, and there’s really nothing that that is is within your control. So we, all we can do is educate ourselves and educate other people. Yeah, about the fact that we do have a process in this. We are a part of this, right? You get

 

Amber Cabral  12:55

to push back, you get to ask questions, you get to that was the biggest thing that I feel like I walked away with is that I’m unrelenting about understanding what is happening to my body, absolutely. But a lot of women are not like a lot of women feel like, once I’m in this room with this doctor, I have to do what they say, and that’s it, yeah? And I’m like, No, it’s

 

Tanika  13:14

the white coat syndrome. It is like, we feel like they are the authority. They went to medical school for years in residency. They know, but I always say Amber that we are the CEOs of our bodies at the end of the day, you can’t tell me how my period went down. Now, I may not be able to explain it in scientific terms, right, but I know right on the third week when my ovaries start to burn on my left side, I know my periods coming exactly like you know those anecdotal things about your body that we need to be proud about sharing, and that’s why I’m so big on storytelling, because I believe that storytelling has so many data points in it exactly you know what I mean. And I think we need to start to revere those data points just as much as we do scientific ones, because within our stories, there’s so much data that can be garnered, and I think we need to share those with our doctor, yeah, and almost force them to listen. Oh. I

 

Amber Cabral  14:13

think that’s that has to be, yeah. That has to be, I feel like one of the things I wish I and I tried to do this through, like, just sharing my story. Yeah, one of the things I wish I could have done immediately after was almost give people a guidebook of questions to ask, like, no matter what these things, and if you are uncomfortable with the answers, you should find another doctor. Yeah, because it was so easy for like, I mean, you y’all have, I don’t. I haven’t even had a speculum put into my body in this office, and y’all are talking about a hysterectomy. I’m confused. How are we here? It’s crazy. And so, like, how often is that happening to someone else? And like, it’s, what was it like? It’s like, the second most common surgery or something. Yes, in addition to it being the second most common surgery, yeah, and then it’s also, it’s also. One of the things that people will say, Gosh, what was the data point? But basically what I remember learning was, if you don’t, it was something along the lines, if you don’t have a C section, you are likely, like, if you don’t have children, and if you also have never had a C section, this is probably the surgery that you will have like in a lifetime as a woman. This is the surgery that you have if you haven’t had either any child or C section. I

 

Tanika  15:27

think we so greatly need to change that narrative Absolutely, because there is so much more to our uterus, exactly, than bearing children. Correct. And there’s this study that just recently came out from, I believe it was Arizona State University that talks about the connection between your uterus and your brain. Oh, wow, and that there is significant cognitive pardon me, I’m no doctor, right? So I’m gonna send the study to you, but there’s some decline that happens cognitively when you remove your uterus, ie dementia, wow. And the article talks about how many of our grandmothers we know that had the surgery, right and then now are suffering with some form of dementia. So there is the connection that happens, because if we can believe and understand that when we’re getting our periods, we get an attitude right, or we get in a mood right, or some, some stem thing with our mental health can happen. Yeah, and we all believe that we know that we see it, we feel it, we know when it’s coming. So if we can believe that, then there has to be some truth to the connection between our uterus and our brain and what’s happening in our minds, right? And I just don’t think we explore that enough. So it breaks my heart when I hear you say that someone said to me, because I didn’t want to be a mother, because, oh, it was the immediate solution. You’re right. And that’s so heartbreaking to me. There

 

Amber Cabral  16:59

was no second guess, Oh, you don’t want kids. Oh, yeah, we can eliminate this all together. Eliminate this altogether. I had to advocate initially to make it clear that I also wanted to be sure that we were keeping my ovaries. Yeah, I had to have my doctor modify the documents. They have you sign, because there’s a document that says that if we see something wrong with your ovaries, we will take them. And I was like, no, no, no, let me see and let me have a consult about that as well. Like, I do not want you to just make a decision while I’m under anesthesia, because I’ve previously signed this piece of paper like this. This is not the way I wanted to go. There I

 

Tanika  17:36

am Amber. We like that’s a gem right there. That’s like a letter pack right there. Don’t do pro tip. Don’t do like, make sure you can alter these documents, right? And they hand all this stuff to you and make it seem like you cannot Absolutely. No, I do not want that exactly. I

 

Amber Cabral  17:51

do not want that.

 

Tanika  17:52

I mean, if people get nothing else from this, right, please alter your documents if I feel necessary.

 

Amber Cabral  17:58

Yeah, you can ask for that. I mean, it is so so many people did not, I think, did not know that they could ask for things. And that’s the thing I got from when I shared my story and I asked for everything. I kept pressing i i walked out of doctor’s offices because I was just like, yep, Nope, don’t sound right. I’m gonna go find someone else. So I want to talk a little bit about some of the things that the white dress project has accomplished. I know that there have been some great things in this last 10 years. Can you share some of the wins, some of the bright spots that have come out of the white dress project?

 

Tanika  18:27

Oh, I’m so proud of this, because there’s so many wins that have come out of of what we’ve created, what I did, when I stepped out on faith and decided to share my story. So the biggest thing, I think, is that we’ve created community, yeah, and at the end of the day, that’s what we all want, right? We want to know that we’re not alone in anything. We want to know that our stories are resonating with one another. Is that my phone?

 

Amber Cabral  18:53

Oh, it’s your phone. I didn’t even I heard it, but I didn’t hear it. Sorry.

 

Tanika  19:01

I’m sorry about that.

 

Amber Cabral  19:04

Okay, did we turn it off? Turn it off? Okay, I was like,

 

Tanika  19:08

I had turned it off before. Thank you, Josh.

 

Amber Cabral  19:14

Okay, do you remember your sentence? Yes, okay, um, I think what?

 

Tanika  19:31

Sorry about that. All good. I think what is so important about the white dress project, and why I’m so proud of it, is because one of the biggest things that we have done is create community, and I think it’s so important to have community in these spaces, because you you really want to feel like you’re not alone. Yes, that’s what I was feeling. Why I created it, because I was like, I can’t be the only one in fetal position on the bathroom floor on a Friday night. When everybody else is out, summer white parties, like all the things and I’m not participating. So I wanted to create community. I wanted people to understand that they could advocate for themselves, that they were the CEOs of their bodies, that they could ask important questions, that they could change documents exactly and not feel so stifled by what the medical community often makes us feel like, which is, I’m the authority. Like, what do you like? You know, I really don’t even have time to take your questions. Like, that’s a whole nother talking about exactly, you know, just the experiences we have so creating community. I’m so very proud of that we are very active on social media and just a large community. The second thing I’m so proud of is our creation of July as fibroid Awareness Month. And I remember sitting at my kitchen table and saying, I want a month. I want something where people can rally around a month and say, This is our month. Our stories are hard to share. They’re hard to tell, but something that can bring us together as a community. So I wrote the legislation and first presented it to the Georgia State House, and had to testify and basically defend why I felt like this was important and the Resolution passed. That’s amazing. Thank you. And I have gone on to do that in the US House, and that is how July has been declared fibers. Fantastic. So we’re really excited about that, because not that this is something that you always feel celebratory about, but our organization is really meant to allow people to understand that they don’t have to suffer alone. So when you don’t feel like wearing your white dress, I’m wearing my white dress for you, or white clothing, it really goes far beyond white dresses. Yes, it’s really just a symbol of hope that says I got you, sis, I understand what you’re going through. We will get through this. We will advocate for funding and more research, Women’s Health Research in this country, let’s not even begin to get started on the low percentile of funding, right? And then when you think about black women and what we’re getting, it’s horrendous, right? So I just wanted a space, and I want to do whatever I can do to make sure that those stories are being told in in the reproductive health space, maternal mortality is really having a moment right now, and it’s so happy for it. But I think we need to pour fibroids into there. We need poor PCOS, endometriosis, all of that in there, because a lot of times the same pregnancy complications are with women who are suffering with connected to all of that. All Connected, yeah, that adenomyosis. Going back to that diagnosis, I

 

Amber Cabral  22:55

had never heard of that, yeah, I had no idea what it was. So when she said that to me, she was like, oh, it’s kind of rare, yeah. And like, I went to go look it up, I could not find anything. You know what I mean? Because I, you know, you get your report before you, like, they talk to you about it. And I was just like, wow, I’m just, like, walking around with this thing, and I I can’t even find any information that I understand about it. Like, all of it is

 

Tanika  23:14

Gabriel legalese, right? Legalese. And, like, science, yeah? Like, I

 

Amber Cabral  23:19

have no idea what this is exactly. I

 

Tanika  23:21

remember Gabrielle Union, I think was like the first, you know, celebrity influencer to talk about it. And she talked about, you know, the reason for her multiple miscarriages was due to it. I just had surgery, August 31, of this year of 2023 and they found adenomyosis. I had another 13 fibroids removed. This is my third myomectomy. Wow. Still have the greatest desire to be a mother, and when I think of all of that, 27 I had five, my second 113, this one, adenomyosis. And just a few weeks ago, Amber, I went back to the doctor, and they’re like, something’s in your uterus. And I was like, what after I just, I’m barely recovering, right? Like,

 

Amber Cabral  24:14

what do you mean? I’m like, right on the line,

 

Tanika  24:16

exactly. And there’s some type of polyp there, and while they seem to feel very cavalier about it, oh, it’s Tanika, you know, it’s fine. We can remove a polyp easily. For me, it’s another it’s another thing, right? And so I understand when you just get to the point where you’re like, Okay, Mm, hmm. Like, what? What else can I take? And top of that, the years of anemia, I’ve had seven blood transfusions due to uterine fibroids because of the way they Yeah, they feed feed in my on my blood in your body. So I’m always ice girl, cold girl. So I need a jacket. I want some socks on, I gotta pee, like, yeah, all of those symptoms that come along with that. So I really want to implore people that we really need to share our stories and we really need to advocate, because it’s not just about having a benign tumor, no, in your uterus, right? There’s so many other things. Yeah. So

 

Amber Cabral  25:21

that leads me to a couple questions. I would love your perspective on. The first is, I would love to just kind of get your thoughts about, like, just the idea that we approach this as a mild thing because they’re benign, yeah, I feel a way about it. I, you know, I’m just like, but it’s not supposed to be there, right? So why don’t we know why they’re happening? Yeah. So the benign is, is irrelevant. Exactly. It’s growing in my body, and it’s not supposed to be right, right? And I just always say, like, if men had something growing in their testicles, it wasn’t supposed to be there, I feel like it would be there. Will be an ad every third commercial segment talking about it. So I’m like, Why did I have to discover this thing? Like, as though it’s a covert mission, why aren’t there meaningful discussions about it? I’d love to just kind of hear your perspective about, you know, just how you think the medical community in general handles fibroids. And then I and then I would like to tap back into just that racial element, like, you know, I have some strong opinions there as well, but given your experience and the things that you’ve probably learned leading the white dress project, I’d like to hear your thoughts there too.

 

Tanika  26:29

Yeah. So I think there’s just so much medical bias. I think there’s all the things that we know, right, the gaslighting that black women go through. I’ll start just on a grand level of just women’s health, right? It’s just underfunded, underserved. When you think of the amount of money that a woman spends versus the amount of money that our government agencies put into funding any scientific research, it the math is just not math anywhere, right? It’s just not adding up regarding how, how all of this plays out in our population, right? So I’m always calling fibroids and PCOS and endometriosis a public health issue because it is right, because we’re not talking about it enough. We’re not it’s always an afterthought. I feel like physicians, while I’m not against physicians at all, they are very cavalier about dismissive, dismissive, Cavalier. There are so many women that are going through this. Is that supposed to make me

 

Amber Cabral  27:39

like, ironic, like, and so that sounds like we should be concerned. That sounds like flipped out about covid, right, right? So, like, if half the population is like, what, like, why is this also not a flip out moment, right? Yeah, exactly.

 

Tanika  27:52

Why are we not alarmed? And yeah, Gavilan right on tables, right? Like, where

 

Amber Cabral  27:58

are these coming from? Like, we don’t have answers at all. And then

 

Tanika  28:01

on top of that, what is it going to take for us to get there? Right, right? Like, what, what is going to be the changing of the narrative that gets us there? So I feel that, you know, it’s our historical context as well how we feel that black women handle pain, all of the things that we know about Tuskegee and Henrietta Lacks. All of those things cannot be forgotten, and they’re not swept away, and they’re not being dismissed enough. There’s not enough call out of it. You know, I think that we talk about it in moments when it’s, it’s we’re afforded the opportunity to insert it into the conversation, but really not examining how it has had an impact and how that impact has trickled down into our medical communities. And I mean, it’s still happening in in our medical schools, which is why I have the mission to talk to our medical students and our residents more about this, because you’re not even learning about this in in in medical school, no, right? So, and I even feel like our pediatricians need to know, yeah, I

 

Amber Cabral  29:12

think that it should be a broader conversation, like, it’s something that everyone’s gonna encounter, yeah, because it’s so prevalent that, I mean, it’s almost, I mean, it’s like, if you’re going to have conversations with you know, young people about sex, right, and reproductive health, why isn’t it a part of the conversation? Why? Why wouldn’t it be a thing that you would add to that discussion? Because everyone either is going to deal with it personally or know someone exactly, because it blew my mind when I started to talk about it, and people literally, I cannot imagine what the white dress projects like feed looks like, yeah, because I was overwhelmed for like, a week and a half, thankfully. I mean, I was, you know, when I shared, I was in my recovery period. You can’t do much, right anyway, right? I mean, I was on my phone, tinkering around, but like, I was so angry. I was so angry just at how I was handled, how so many people, you know, like me. Handled. How many people were literally told their only option was a hysterectomy. I mean, I fortunately got to a doctor where I was able to option. She literally said to me this, you know, adenomyosis is going to continue to cause your uterus to grow, but if you don’t want to have hysterectomy, you do not have to, like, and so, like, I but I didn’t get that energy from, you know, more than one doctor before that, you

 

Tanika  30:20

know, so it’s and that’s all we ever want. I

 

Amber Cabral  30:23

just want. I want to know my options for real. Yeah, exactly. I want to know that when you like, you are the part that really, really knocked my socks off, like, the point where I was just, like, Absolutely not. I had the ultrasound in an office. They took some pictures. I had an, you know, at not this office. Let me find another doctor’s office. I go to the first doctor that I, you know, really am like, Okay, let’s see what we can do about this. I go and they asked me to send them the ultrasound pictures. I try to send them the emails don’t work. I print them out. I literally take them in, and they were like, oh yeah. And I’m like, I can’t see nothing. I didn’t print this on, like, any special medical paper. How, what are you looking at? Right? And so, like, just the comfort level of making a decision with an image that has been printed on my at home. HP, right? Like, nothing, high res, no. You know, special that you can this is, does not appear to be the kind of quality that you should be making decisions about my body with absolutely, but that was what would have happened. And it happens every day, yeah? And I’m just like, Okay. And so I was so angry at the stories of women who had that happen, yeah? I was just like, wow. Nobody asked for that. Nobody. My consistent message was exactly what you said. Ask for an MRI. Yeah, because they can’t see, they really can’t see. And if they can’t see and explain it, why should they be going in looking for it? Key

 

Tanika  31:48

points, but it’s happening. It’s very much happening. I always say, you know, like finding a good doctor is like, oh, dating, right? It is like, you we need. I mean, if you’re not on when I’m on, then you may not be the person for me. And I think we really need to value ourselves that way, yes. And really need to honor, yeah, what we know about our bodies. And I just don’t think we’re doing that enough, because we’ve also had the narrative like, you know, my body is not mine. I’m I’m, it’s out of control. I don’t know what it’s doing. I don’t know. And we also have to take that back to know our bodies are right, and we do know what’s happening. And you have agency, and you have agency, yeah, absolutely, yeah.

 

Amber Cabral  32:32

So I want to ask you, you know, I imagine that you probably went on a bit of a journey to, like, start a, you know, a project that advocates for a public health issue. Are there any recommendations you have for people that want to do that? Like, there are a lot of there are a lot of black women causes that I think could use a lot of the energy that you put behind, you know, the white dress project. Do you have any recommendations that, like, you know, having done this, and, I mean, getting a month is a big deal. Is there anything that you would recommend people keep in mind to kind of bring that to life?

 

Tanika  33:05

I feel like, just be authentic. Like I literally was like, All right, my mom is gonna be mad that I’m about to share my story, yeah, but I did, and to your point earlier about how your DMS blew up. Like, I feel like that’s the moment when, when people understand, like, Oh my god. Amber just shared, like, okay, I’m good. That is a thing. You’re right, such a thing Amber, because I remember the same thing happened to me when I shared, I was like, oh my god, girl, my mom, my cousin, my sister, yes. And it’s like, I’ve known you for 15 years and never knew, yeah. So I think the moment you share, it gives people just the encouragement and authority and just it re ignites their voice, right? And I think as women, that’s what we’re here to do. We’re here to, you know, it’s more than being my sister’s keeper, like I want your voice to be told to so to answer that question, I feel like, just be authentic. You know, there are people and there are moments that are going to come up where people are going to be like, Oh, Tanika, that. I mean, you know, it’s not cancer. I remember, I’m the first I can’t believe somebody would say, oh, honestly, all the time. I remember the first time I went to the US House of Representatives, and a senator or House representative said to me, Tanika, well, is anyone dying from, for from fibroids? And I remember looking at him and saying like, sir, with all due respect, dying shouldn’t be this is that the requirement is, let me know something, and let’s

 

Amber Cabral  34:45

honest. Let’s be very honest about that for just a moment. If we consider the framing of a lot of legislation that’s taking place today, right, and we consider some positioning around a lot of that legislation, it could be inferred. That the inability to reproduce or something that presents an obstacle to that should be a concern Absolutely, and potentially a concern that should be legislated over Absolutely, if we look at what’s happening in that space now, how would this not also meet the qualifications of something that should be a concern because it is preventing the opportunity for a life which lots of folks are very preoccupied with that exact topic, exactly. So, I mean, so well said, I would, I would have probably blown away like But, and I was

 

Tanika  35:30

so I say that to say that you will meet those obstacles. You will meet the people in power, right, that you’re trying to get to that you’re trying to advocate to that you’re trying to show that how important this is. And they will say things that really rock you, but you have to keep going. I really also want us to know that there’s such value in our story, like I keep saying the same Well, I

 

Amber Cabral  35:58

also think that part of your, your passion around that too, is because you, you know you you’re a journalist, yeah, you know you work in a newsroom, yeah, you probably have visibility to like, you know why storytelling can shift the narrative? I would love for you to touch on that, and then I have one last question, okay,

 

Tanika  36:13

yeah, I’m so proud to be a journalist. I work for a great network that, you know, we share stories, right, and we do what we can to get stories of underserved people and people who wouldn’t otherwise have their story told be told, right? But do we always get that right? You know? You know that could be argued, right? But I understand the power of the story because I see what can happen when someone’s story does make it to television, yeah, or when someone does have the ability to create community after they’ve told their story. So I always say that because I feel like it’s, it’s a powerful moment that we always need to be reminded of. Because, let’s be clear, all of us have one right, right? And there, there are times when we don’t feel that our story rises to the level of others because we compare. We feel like, well, I didn’t have 27 fibroids. I only had nine, right? Maybe my story. And I think we need to dismiss that thought, yeah, because what it does is it stifles us, and it says that

 

Amber Cabral  37:25

it has to be absolutely terrible for it to even matter,

 

Tanika  37:27

exactly. And that’s not the case, because it has somehow altered your life, right? And it has altered the dreams that you had for yourself, right? I when I was growing up, I always wanted to be a mother, like marriage was cool, like, yeah, you know, but it was my greatest desire to be a mother. So to see the trajectory that I’ve had, to see my journey, it’s really a heartbreaking moment for me to understand where I am, the age that I am, and realizing that that dream has not been realized. Yeah, I’m still very hopeful that it will be realized. But for me, you know, people will say, girl, don’t you don’t want. No kids, no way, right? All the things, nobody can tell you what you want exactly to want, what you want exactly. And I feel that same sentiment about your story. Nobody can tell you the importance of your story, and nobody’s going to necessarily validate you about your story, but someone will resonate with your story. And I think that’s the most important thing that I’ve done in starting a movement, which it is a movement, and I’m very proud of that, is being authentic about my story and understanding that my story and my voice matter.

 

Amber Cabral  38:45

I love that. Okay, I have one last question. Yes, I asked this question. I know it was fast, right? It goes fast. It goes so fast. So I have one last question. My question is something I ask every single guest, and I’ll give you a little bit of a primer. So I started this podcast. It’s called guilty privilege, because I think that people need to understand that privilege isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Like we tend to think of privilege as something that, you know, only the elite have. We also, if we happen to have some variation of privilege, tend to be a little bit shy about it, or uncomfortable or embarrassed, or we, you know, defensive even, and really, privilege gives us a lot of opportunity to create opportunity, access, equity for others. And so I call the podcast guilty privilege, because I think people need to stop being guilty about it. So my question is, what is one privilege that you have that you refuse to feel guilty about?

 

Tanika  39:41

I think you said it so eloquently when you talked about sharing your story and advocating for yourself through your fibroid journey. And I feel very proud and privileged about the fact that I have opportunities like this with you to share my story, because I feel like my. So it’s gonna help somebody like, I take I don’t have any thoughts about it, not like it’s this is going to help somebody, somebody who’s going to hear this and it’s going to resonate with them. So I feel very privileged to be sitting on this couch with you, to be talking with legislators, to be with community people who are like, I want to share my story. Like, when I hear that, I’m like, Yes, that’s the sauce right there. That’s what we want. We want people to get to the point where they understand how important it is. Yeah. Now, do people always feel safe doing that? Yeah, of course not. No. Have we traumatized women about sharing stories and about feeling like a woman and what they can share absolutely so I feel very privileged that I’ve gotten rid of all of that, and I stand very firm in knowing who I am and my story. So I feel like that’s a privilege that I’m not going to be guilty about Thank you.

 

Amber Cabral  41:02

I appreciate that.

 

Tanika  41:04

Thank you.

 

Amber Cabral  41:05

Thank you for coming. This was great. All right, we have two things to do. Well, three, one, I have to introduce you. Okay, so the way that that works is I’m going to essentially talk to this camera, and you want to pretend as though that camera is a person, so you kind of want to have the interaction of like, as though I were introducing you to them. So don’t deadpan this way. Don’t deadpan at me, but kind of a nice warm between the two. And then I will, I will introduce and then I’ll kind of turn toward you and welcome you, you know, to the show. And then you can say, Oh, thank you. Whatever your responses is fine. And then I have to say something to this camera at the very end, after that’s done, and then we’ll take a quick photo. Okay, okay, yeah, all right. Let me get my thoughts together. So is it okay for me to say you are the founder of the white dress project and an award winning journalist? Can I say it in that order, yes, okay, I prefer that. Okay. I might not even say CNN, honestly, we didn’t really talk about it. I mean, you know, you know. Okay, all right,

 

Tanika  42:20

so many thoughts about it too.

 

Amber Cabral  42:21

I mean, yeah, it’s yeah. I’m like, right, right, right. It’s yeah. It’s a very interesting time to be like, Okay,

 

Tanika  42:33

I was fumbling over we share what we share

 

Amber Cabral  42:35

exactly, okay? I want you to say your name for me, just to make sure that I have it in my brain, right? You’ve done this for me before, but just to make sure,

 

Tanika  42:43

yes, Tanika, gray Val, Brun, okay, because

 

Amber Cabral  42:46

we they love to do this, yeah? I was like, No, it’s Brun, yeah. Okay, I had it, right? Okay, cool. Okay, I feel like I’m leaning, welcome to another episode of guilty privilege. My name is Amber Cabral, and today I’ve had the privilege of talking to Tanika Gray valbrun. She is the founder of the white dress project, and she is also an award winning journalist, so she has a passion for storytelling, and the stories that we’re going to talk about today affect someone you know, and maybe even you, and it’s worth US leaning in to understand the value of the equity when it comes to women’s reproductive health and how we can advocate for ourselves. Thank you for joining me, Tanika,

 

Tanika  43:33

thank you so much for having me, Amber, and thank you for shining a light on this topic. It’s your personal story. It’s my personal story, and I’m so happy that we get to share today.

 

Amber Cabral  43:44

Thank you. Yes, okay. My name is Amber Cabral and this is guilty privilege. I’ll keep tearing that up, okay, oh, I gotta tie those. My name is Amber Cabral, and this is guilty privilege. All right, what time is it? I feel like the time is.