SPEAKERS

Thomas James, Amber Cabral

Amber Cabral  00:14

Okay, you know, I’m used to my clap, but I’ll take it. Yeah, okay, um, let me get to where, what I want to how I want to frame this first. Okay, so, Thomas, I’m so glad that you joined me on this podcast. You’re one of the most interesting people, I know. Oh, wow. And you also have a job that, like, I don’t really understand, but I know it’s really cool. So can you tell us what you do exactly, and also just kind of like how you guys started doing it,

Thomas  00:44

yeah, so I’ll go back in time to talk about kind of what I’m doing now, yeah. So I’m originally from the DMV area, yeah. And so being a product of that area, when I was growing up, I was very immersed in the universe of Go Go music, go go culture. So during that time, I was very I really paid attention to my surroundings, so and I was always interested in what was interesting the folks that I was around, right? So for a while, as I was, you know, attending parties and things like that, and not even just parties, but like the the entire atmosphere, so all of the you know, at the time, you know, everything that was happening on Facebook at that time, and, you know, kind of just like the entire apparatus. So so from there I started, you know, selling clothes and jewelry and stuff and things that people liked, you know, around that and but then as I kind of became more and more immersed in that world, I started to become very impressed by the people that were actually producing a lot of the parties and other happenings kind of in that world. So some friends and I, we started our own promotional group to where we used to promote, you know, for GO, GO shows, bands, and then we ended up throwing our own parties and and that was kind of my introduction to the arts and cultural world, yes. And so from there, that was, you know, fast forward a little bit, end of high school, college, started really doing a lot of programming because of different clubs and organizations I was with different positions I had, and you’re not talking

Amber Cabral  02:41

about computer not talking about computer programming, you’re talking about, like, advanced programming,

Thomas  02:45

exactly, yes. So you know, anything from discussions, you know, community discussions with with law enforcement, or sex education, or, you know, movie nights, things like that, anything that would engage an audience. I was doing a lot of those programs, and then I started to develop a photography program, or not program, but a photography practice. And so that was kind of my introduction to the fine art world, okay? And so, you know, through photography, whether I had a studio practice, a lot of internet based projects, editorial projects with magazines, et cetera, et cetera, kind of through the culmination of all of that that I was able to be introduced to, the gallery world, the museum world, and really presenting artists and art through exhibitions as well as exhibition programming. And that led me to my current role that I do, right? Which is the, I am the Executive Director of the last resort artist retreat, yes, which is an artist residency based in Baltimore, and in that space, we specialize in bringing creatives, mainly black creatives, to this space to engage in, we’ll say, programming around rest, rejuvenation and incubation. And so we bring, we bring folks for periods as long as a month to as short as a long weekend. And so that will include a that includes curated groups of creatives that that we curate, and we, you know, bring to it from all different types of creative backgrounds and practices, as well as artist collectives, whether that’s formal or informal, and organizations that are doing different sorts of grassroot work,

Amber Cabral  04:48

yeah, so I’m just gonna say I honestly get to know you because of the last resort, but kind of not right. So our meeting happened because. Is just like my day to day job, right? I had, I kind of put a call out, asked for some information, ended up passing it along, trying to support some work that a client was doing. And we ended up, kind of basically ending up on the same email. Like I was like, oh, okay, this is someone that I have kind of haphazardly, accidentally helped, you know, in this space, and I’ll be honest, like I didn’t, I would not have considered myself really even that interested in art, like, outside of, just like the broad sense. I think that most people think about it like, you know, I like nice photography, or, you know, I listen to music, or, you know, I enjoy ballet, but like, not in a broad sense, like, I enjoy, like art exhibitions I enjoy, like the curation of the presentation of right? It’s not a thing I thought about. And so as a result of my dear friend Conrad, I ended up going to the last resort, which is where I actually met you in person. So we met over email, and then I met you in person at the last resort. And it was amazing. It was amazing. It was a ton of fun. It was so much fun. And I almost didn’t go, right? I almost didn’t go, and I ended up going simply because Conrad was like, Are you kidding? You need to go to this, to this event, you know, to this event that’s being held at the last resort. And initially I was like, Who is this person, and why is he inviting me to his own so can you talk a little bit about, like, what started the last resort? Who also, yeah, and just kind of like what you hope artists gain from the experience of the retreat, because I had the experience, and I wasn’t even there all weekend, and it was impactful and amazing. I carried it with me for a long time, but I would love for you to just talk a little bit about that. Yeah.

Thomas  06:34

So the last resort artist retreat was founded in 2020 by Derek Adams, and so his his idea was to create a space to tell us who Derek Adams is. Oh, yes, a big deal. So, yeah. So Derek Adams is a world renowned multidisciplinary artist. He’s from Baltimore, but he his practice and studio is in New York, but so he came back to Baltimore to essentially be a supporter of the arts and culture sector that’s happening in Baltimore. So he and I, we met because we were we ended up on the same advisory board curating exhibitions at the UB Blake Cultural Center, which is a an arts nonprofit there in Baltimore. And at the time when we met, I was working at a different nonprofit called Creative Alliance. And from there, and while I was there, I was the visual arts director. So I was directing all of the gallery presentations, the residency program that was there, different types of workshops and programming and but then, when Derek told me about his vision for the last resort, he asked me if I’d be interested in coming on. And I said, Yes. And so about, you know, after some time, I became the first staff member at the last resort. And so when you came, I was the executive director, facilities manager, yes, event coordinator, program director, but luckily, now after after really three years of hard work and, you know, generous support of a lot of individuals and foundations, and we’ve been able to hire staff, so we’re now Fully rocking and rolling. I want to talk a

Amber Cabral  08:22

little bit about the last resort, like it’s amazing, and I keep saying that, but it’s hard to describe. So like, if I were to talk about what happened for me, first of all, I didn’t know who Derek Adams was, which is why I was like, No, you have to tell people who that is, because then you google him, and you’re like, oh, yeah, okay. Unless you’re in the art world, or just generally, you know, have an interest in black art, then you will probably know who he is. But I didn’t. And then I got this invitation, and I kind of was like, I don’t know who this person is. I’m not sure that I’m gonna respond. Maybe this is a general, broad reaching invitation. And then a friend of mine, you know, who was on last season, Conrad, actually said, No, you should go. It’s at Derek Adams House. I was like, Who is Derek? Yeah, yeah. And so what was great about it to me? First of all, it came at a time where I was traveling, like a, I mean, like insane amount for work. I also didn’t know that, like, I had never considered rest as a community experience. And then the third thing was, I met so many people. So what happened for for our, I’ll just say cohort, I guess, of folks. We came in, we played games at night, we laughed a lot, we we ended up having some amazing meals. Artists came through and talked about their work. It was, it was, it was a really, almost intentionally curated networking event, but surrounding art and artistry, and of course, I ended up deciding to make a purchase that night because I saw a piece of art in Derek’s house. And I was like, Oh my gosh, I have to have that right, which was my first like piece of art I’ve ever actually been like, oh, I have to negotiate this and figure it out. So for me, it was an. Outstanding experience. But like, talk to us about, like, talk about the last rooms, or, like, I think it’s something that, especially in this age of us, always talking about self care, yeah, something that would be really, like, people should understand what it is that you’re

Thomas  10:11

doing, yeah? So I’ll set the scene so it’s really, it’s nestled in a historically black neighborhood that is really positioned, positioned perfectly for a residential stay. It’s so again, it’s a residential neighborhood, but it’s very close to a lot of cultural institutions, academic institutions. So Johns Hopkins University is in walking distance, the Baltimore Museum of Arts in walking distance. The, you know, few other higher education institutions, Towson University, gotcha College, a drive down the street. The the two arts districts, two of the arts districts in Baltimore, a drive down the street. So, but the the house is, it is a large, eight bedroom house with a everything is white. There’s a big white picket fence, and when you open it up, you you can see the homestead, which has a wraparound porch. And then when you when you walk up to the porch and you walk inside, you see this. There’s all white house that is decorated with tons of colorful rugs and pillows and and all types of, you know, artwork from black artists from across the globe, you know, multi multidisciplinary, multi generational, like I say, I think it’s an eight bedroom house. There’s nine common spaces, there’s a there’s a an outdoor patio space that is, you know, fully paved so we can, so we’re able to hold events on that space. There’s about a half an acre of green space, part of which we are developing into a public art garden. And then there’s also a multi purpose space where we can hold a lot of wellness activities. So that could be yoga, mindfulness, meditation, any type of you know, we we have, we can have smart, small art exhibitions in there, so receptions and lectures, cocktail parties, really, anything that we want kind of separate from the house and the programming that we have within the space is to, is to connect people without any with no pressure, to to to exchange anything. You know monetarily, there’s no we want. We want, we want these. We want impactful interactions that are non transactional, yeah, so that’s a lot of what you experience. So we, when, we, when we curate these dinner programs, or, you know, these overnight cohorts, these weekend long courts, etc, we try to bring together groups of very interesting people. So now that that are in the the arts ecosystem. So when, when you were, when you were there, I’m trying to remember who exactly was there. But we had, we had curators, we had artists, we had directors of, you know, arts nonprofits, folks that are in the in the financial sector, you know, like Conrad, who are, who are advocates of the arts, and you know, over over dinner, over the over the games that we played, or even just sitting around in the living room, we’re able to not only, not only have fun and get to know each other, but there is that space for these really impactful conversations in which we can, we can strategize and just think about the past and the present and how that’s going to affect the future. So I remember when we were there, we I remember my fiance was there, and we’re we were all talking about her business, and and, and a friend of mine, Malik Lee, he was there, and he was talking about the how important it is to support a lot of these, a lot of these black run like small web series on YouTube, and how it’s important for networks to pick these up and things like that. And just conversations that, conversations that that wouldn’t, that wouldn’t necessarily happen in, in a in a house setting, if it’s, you know, if there is some sort of, I don’t know, end game, if you will, these are, these are conversations where it’s essentially, it’s kind of like you’re amongst friends, to a certain degree, because the space really lends itself to, to be very vulnerable, for people, because it’s the way that we the way that we look at things, is Israel, like we want to make that lasting impression. And a lot of that comes from, again, these sort of unexpected moments of vulnerability. And when you walk away like, wow, that felt really good. Yeah, you know, and that that’s a lot of you. Yeah, we, we’ve essentially tried to create a think tank at Grandma’s house. Yeah,

Amber Cabral  15:05

it’s, I mean, it was, it was literally like, it was a conversation amongst friends who were strangers. It really was like, I mean, it was clear that some of you knew each other. But for me, I’m like, I’m coming from, like, you know, small business owner, you know, at that time, like, again, traveling a lot, because it was, you know, before the pandemic, really wasn’t it before the pandemic, it was in the midst of it. Yes, it was in the midst of it. Oh, that was another reason why I was like, I don’t know if I’m going to this. Yeah, it was 2020, 21 yes. So it was kind of like, things, yes. Okay. So there was also this moment of, like, I think, you know, now that I’m reframing it, actually it was probably a lot of us wanted to connect, and I would have never met these people. Like in a million years, I follow the majority of the folks who were there. Is still on Instagram. I met artists I hadn’t thought about I realized that I liked art. It was the first experience I had. And, you know, the piece I bought was Rashad Newsom’s work, yes, and I walked up to that piece and was just like, wow. And I came back to it, and then I came back to it again, and then I posted it on Instagram, and I tagged him, and he was like, Oh, wow. So then we started talking about it. I’m like, Oh my gosh, I’m about to buy a piece of art like, that was, it’s an unforgettable experience. And I’m sure that a lot of the conversation that we had, which for me, was with a bunch of perfect strangers, that’s a follow Malik, right? It just it was. So when I think about the way we need to heal as humans, to get to the place where we can treat each other equitably and understand that we all have, like, some of the same basic fundamental needs, it’s that experience. It’s the way it felt to like, I don’t know you, I kind of have a loose idea what you might be interested in, but I trust the experience that I’m having in this home, and I also trust what the home will provide from, you know, like, a visual stimulation standpoint, an activity standpoint, like, right? There was just a lot of pieces, and it was judgment free. I was like, I remember asking, like, is this free? Like, does this cost? And you’re like, No, for the artists, it’s it isn’t a cost. And I’m like, Wow, it’s so important in the world to have spaces that don’t feel like exactly what you described, that are demanding something for from you, for you to be able to show up impactfully. Because, like, I was, I was not expecting anything but walk away with a lot, like, a lot of new relationships. You I mean, like, you know, your fiance, like, all of those things would not have happened had I had con right now been, like, you need to go to this thing. So I think the last resort is, I think the work that y’all are doing are is incredible. I think it’s super impactful and really, really important. One of the things you mentioned is, it’s about leisure therapy, right? It’s, it’s weird. We are leisuring, right? Yes. Can you talk about what that means, you think, for the black community?

Thomas  17:53

Yeah, this is something that I’ve I’ve really had to think about a lot, especially since the the, we’ll say, the the racial reckoning, yeah, the pandemic. Because I might go, I’ll bring it back, or I might take it to the side for a second. But there was a time, you know, during during the pandemic, when, you know, at the height when there was this narrative of of people being able to to step back and take a break, and those sorts of those sorts of narratives. But I didn’t myself, and I know a lot of other creatives and just a lot of black people in general, that wasn’t necessarily our experience. Yeah,

Amber Cabral  18:42

it wasn’t available. Yeah, yeah. There was,

Thomas  18:44

I think that. I think there was a, there was a, almost a homogeneous group of individuals that had the ability to take a step back. And I don’t even think it might not necessarily be the right word, they really got to take a step back and and listen. And then a lot of us, a lot of the work that we were doing was, was a lot of talking, right? And so we, we may have been afforded the the space at that time to to speak and and really have our our perspectives, our feelings, you know, things that we may not have been comfortable saying before. Have those be considered, but taking a break, that’s I did not experience that. Yeah. And so, to bring it back to the last resort that is really being able to create a safe space where like minded people can, can congregate, can express their ideas, etc. That is the that’s one of the crux of the programming and and so you. Even for us, you know, I’ve been, I was speaking about this endeavor with Derek even before the pandemic. And so, you know, so even through all of that, our ideas of of leisure had shifted, you know, like at first, a lot of what we, we thought about was like, people, people don’t, people aren’t going to do anything when they come here, right? They’re just gonna lay around, yeah. They’re just gonna lay around, yeah. And, and then we started to think about it. We’re like, Well, we started thinking about labor different ways. We’re like, well, you know, labor can be can be leisure, if people, you know, exercise can be leisure. You know, writing can be leisure. All of, all of these, all these different things. And so the programming, then, really in the mission, really sort of shifted to to equating leisure and autonomy and agency, and how and how the intersection of those and what that meant for the organization. So, so what that, what that really ends up looking like is when, when people come on site, we, we provide programming options, yeah, so, you know, it might be a, you know, we might, we might bring in a yoga instructor or a masseuse, right? And you can indulge in that, if you choose, if not, if you want to lay around and binge watch NetFlix all day. You can do that. You can do that. You know, we might, we might go on a on a nature walk. We might go have dinner at this restaurant, or go to this exhibition opening, or go to this talk, or whatever, as a group or as two people or or you can, you can, you can just walk around, you can do whatever, whatever is going to to bring you what you need in that moment. We, we are going to be the we’re going to be the facilitators of that. And I think that that the and especially, you know, having it be paid for, right? Is that the financial burden is not there, yeah, and again, and there’s no there’s no burden, there’s no expectation to create anything so, so that is, that’s really how we how things have, how things have progressed, and kind of what we look at, what we see as leisure, yeah,

Amber Cabral  22:24

yeah. So a couple things I want to pull out first, just kind of on that same kind of point about leisure. I think the fact that no one has to pay and no one has to do anything, you can just come and indulge is, in and of itself, leisure. Like, I remember the first few hours I was there, I was like, is it, am I supposed to, is it are we, do we have to listen to it, like a multi level marketing conversation, like, what’s like, what’s the piece like, what is the thing that you need for me to be engaged here, right? Yeah, exactly. Like, what’s happening, right? And it was like, No, and this is your room and this, and I’m like, oh, so I just, I’m just free to, like, move about, like, the how, the whole house, like, but, you know, it was very we don’t have access to that. So, like, I want to, like, really drive that home. That that’s important. The second thing is, I think it’s important for you to tell people, you know, like, artists, like, how do they get how do they just go to a website? How do they find out about it? How do they figure out, how do they get in a residency, if that’s what they would like

Thomas  23:21

to do. Yeah, that’s a great question. So so the residency itself, as far as the coming on site. So we have, we have different types of residencies and retreats. So So for some of them, they’re four week long residencies for for four artists at a time. But then we will also, we also bring in practitioners and just other folks in the arts ecosystem to stay me for long weekends, etc. So, I mean, the best way to get in touch with us is just going through the website, which is the last resort, I’m sorry, is T, L, R, A, r.org, which is the acronym, and and and honestly, you know, for us, we are, we’re very open to to really responding to what the community needs. So, you know, we’ve gotten, we get a lot of inquiries about who we are, what we do, etc. And you know, some things fit the mission, and others don’t. And so, but, but, but when things do fit the mission, we try to make a concerted effort to really try and ingratiate those organizations or individuals into the programming that we do. And so that that could mean, you know, finding a finding a long weekend to bring, you know, your organization on site to do some sort of, you know, retreat and collaborate with, with, with your leaders, to, you know, create something that will be impactful, yeah? Or could simply be inviting someone on site for a tour or to one of our dinner programs, etc. So that’s But yeah, that that’s the best way to get in contact. Got

Amber Cabral  24:58

it makes sense. So I’m. Couple questions specifically about the art world that I think you’re probably the best person I know to answer historically. You know, black and brown folks have not necessarily had access to art, and that’s both. I mean, we’ve always been artists. We haven’t always been valued as artists. We also haven’t necessarily been the ones to collect or even know how to get into the space to begin to collect, right? Again, I was totally blown away that I went to this Random House of this random artist that I hadn’t heard of and walked away a, you know, big budding collector, right? Can you talk a little bit about why it’s important that, you know, black and brown folks do Lean into both creating and acquiring art, yeah,

Thomas  25:42

well, I think that in, in the big picture, in the the larger lexicon, you know, the the fine art industry is a multi billion dollar, absolutely, industry that, you know, black and brown folks should just, you know, We need some we

Amber Cabral  25:59

need some land, exactly, right? So,

Thomas  26:04

so just, just thinking about it, from a, from that sort of lens is, is important framing. Because, you know, it’s a, it’s a sector of the economy that, you know, black people are, in some way, shape or form, already involved in there. You know, there should be some level of ownership and control in different ways. So, so that just on the commercial side, but it’s important for, it’s important for, for for black and brown artists, artists of color, new collectors, and even just collectors in general, to have access to to this, to this fine art world, because our, you know, much like any other sector you know, our our expertise, our experiences, our interests, etc, you know, bring something to the table. You know, whether it could be fine art, but that’s also STEM programming, right? We get, you know, these amazing inventions that we still use today, yeah, you know, in the culinary world or the literary world or interior design, etc, etc. And for, for me, personally, when I think about, when I think about access, I think about it as a to the art world, I think about as a means for change. So, you know, every when we think about, we think about symbols of revolution. Just, just think about that in general. Know the angst or the Black Power Fist, or, you know, these, you know, music or chants, or, you know, these sorts of, these sorts of elements that that have stood the test of time, you know, all of those. You know, that’s design, right? You know that that is, that is bringing creativity, that’s bringing, you know, screen printers and folks like that, bringing them in and being able to to create these, these items for, you know, for chain, for propaganda, you know, and so to, yeah, so then to, kind of, to, kind of bring it back, especially for for collectors and even, and just folks that are just interested in the the the arts ecosystem in general, you know, the art world Is can be very exclusionary. It can be very clicky. Part of the part of that reason is because the commercial aspect of the art world is, it’s very unregulated, yeah, you know, to To be honest, there’s a lot of, like, shady things that are going on, you know, behind things like that, right? You know, but in but in any case, yeah, I was, I was, I always want to preface it with that, because it’s because a lot of, a lot of what we what we do see, is smoke and mirrors, unless you’re really on the inside. Okay,

Amber Cabral  28:57

that’s good to know if I want to buy some work. So yeah, and how do you know like, how do you know how to buy like, especially in a, you know, a space we’ve been excluded from

Thomas  29:07

Exactly, and that’s the point. The the point of, the point of exactly what you’re saying, is that you there may be an artist that you are very interested in buying work from, there may be a gallery that you’re very interested in, in purchasing work from, but you may never get on their list. You may send an inquiry and say, hey, you know, I they’re interested in, right, in buying, you know, whatever, or even going to a show. And, you know, hey, I want to, I want to purchase this piece, etc. And you may, you may never get a call back. You may never, you know, because again, like, that’s just, that’s just how it operates again. So, like, you know, there’s, there’s clicks and sectors

Amber Cabral  29:48

I have seen, like, some artists do some things that I think are intentionally trying to create some equity. I have a couple pieces that I literally only got because I was. Yes, I like, hit the lottery, basically, like, you know, the artist posted something on Instagram and basically said, I have 12 of these, the first 12 people to ask you can buy it. And it’s like, this person doesn’t make prints. You know what I’m saying, like, the work isn’t available otherwise. And so I’m like, okay, so I actually was lucky enough, right? But I think that that, to your point, is trying to create some of that equity that like, if you’re not on the list, if you don’t know the galleries, if you aren’t able, I at least, at least still have an opportunity to Yeah,

Thomas  30:27

and I think for a lot of artists now, are being very intentional about that. So there’s an artist named April Bay. She’s based in Los Angeles. She she had this project where, where she created these, these very small original works and but she sold them for 90% off. So, you know, so so that folks who couldn’t afford her work otherwise would be able to purchase it. There are a lot of artists that will intentionally say to to to the galleries that they work with. I want, I want this piece, or, you know, X percent of this pieces, these pieces, to go to black collectors, or, etc, etc. Because, other than, if that’s not the case, that won’t happen, right? And I think so it’s, it’s important on, you know, for the, for the artist side, to, you know, to try and focus on some of these equitable practices, yeah. But then also for for collectors and other and other folks that are interested in the, you know, just being part of the ecosystem, you know, a lot of it is, is taking up space. So you know that that and that and that comes in a multitude of ways. So an easy, a quick example would be, for example, like joining a museum board, right, or the board of some sort of arts nonprofit, or, you know, again, putting, kind of, putting your, whether it’s your money or your expertise or sweat equity, or whatever kind of staking, you know, your claim in, you know, With these organizations, to to be able to kind of craft your own, your own way, if you will. So, like, for example, if you’re interested in the work of an artist and, and you really want other people to and, or, I should say, if you want the value of the of the work to go up for, you know, for whatever reason, because you believe in the artist, etc, etc. If you’re on a museum board, you can one, you can you can be in you can be on the acquisitions team committee, or whatever, and your voice can be heard in the work that gets acquired. But also you could buy two pieces from an artist, one piece you keep the other piece you give to the museum, instant value, you know, race, you know, so, and it’s like, um, so that’s, there’s just a couple of, just, like, simple examples. But I think overall, there no one is, especially in, in in the in the fine art world, especially if we’re talking about the commercial world. You know, you as a collector, especially a black collector, or a collector of color who might be excluded from some of these circles. It’s very important to, you know, you kind of have to be at renegade to a certain degree, and you have to really, you know, really push your way through

Amber Cabral  33:20

Gotcha. Okay. Um, that’s super helpful, because I honestly, um, have kind of, I don’t want to say stalled, but, like, hesitated on how to grow my collection. There are things I’ve wanted, but I’m like, I don’t even know how to engage the artist. Like I was lucky because I posted something on Instagram and he responded to me. But I was also very clear even from you. You were like, oh yeah. I mean, sometimes it happens, but sometimes it happens, but sometimes they don’t say anything, you know. And so that was, I mean, super, like, helpful for me. But like, I have come to realize, especially because, you know, Conrad also has started a collection as well, that it is hard to necessarily be able to gain access and get in. So, all right, I have a couple other questions, specifically around getting into, like, the art space, like I know a few artists, I will say, almost all of the people I know, who are some of what I consider to be the most amazing, amazing artists. But they’re also people I know so probably biased, they are struggling to, like, break in and, like, have their work recognized and, you know, be positioned in a way where, you know someone is actually taking an interest in buying their work, or, you know, having access to the social circles, or having the clout, I guess, necessary to get you know, buyer’s eyes, you know, in their direction. And obviously, every artist you know, especially when we’re talking about, you know, fine art, you know they we really want people to be seen. How, how would you recommend someone position themselves to get connected, like, to get, you know, like, in a position where I am an artist, I’d like you to see my work. But, like, you know, what’s the right if you were to make a recommendation, yeah, you know, what would you say? I

Thomas  34:58

would say a couple of things. Yeah, first, I think that number one it is, it’s important to for any artist to just produce things, yes, so on the and I’ll expand on that, because I don’t want to make it sound too simple, yeah. You’re not just, like, just make things, yeah? So like, so, you know, so like, making, making work is one thing, yeah, and you should if, if that is, if that’s what you want to do, then you should continually make work. But also, I believe that as an artist, you should, you should also be making other culturally relevant things. So that could be, that could be a blog where you write about the shows that are happening in your area? Because most, most area, most, most places that aren’t new york city states, most of them don’t have an arts and culture column in their local newspaper anymore. It’s all been cut. So there’s so you know. So like writing about those right? Writing about art, showing up to other artists, shows things like that, being really becoming part of the community, getting involved with organizations that are that are in your area. And so it’s a lot of, it’s a lot of slow burn, natural, yeah, socializing. Well, I mean, yes, but I think also, but more importantly, it, more importantly, in these, and this is the only way that I’ve that I was able to garner any success, really, is just showing up, yeah? So, you know, so again, so I live in Baltimore, but you know, I’ve had, you know, when, when friends have shows. You know DC is, is 45 minutes? Yeah, that’s not super far, but I’m busy, right? So, like, if people know, okay, I’m on a Thursday night, I’m shooting down to DC to come see your show. People appreciate that, yeah, you know. Or if, if, if a good friend has a show in in Philly or New York, or, you know, some way that you can, you know, I can just shoot up the, you know, the beltway or something. Or even, like LA, like, a couple years ago, I had a show in LA and Malik, our friend, he was, he was in, he was in Sacramento, and he was like, Thomas has a show. This is a big deal. Yeah, I’m gonna come and just support, because I, you know, we’re coincidentally here at the same time, and those things mean a lot. Yeah, and so for an artist, there is, you know, there’s, you can always cold call people like, hey, come check myself out. You can post it on Instagram, etc, but there’s, but you’re not going to get any, not any. I mean, you might get lucky, but for the most part, if you want authentic feedback, authentic critique, authentic relationship building. Yeah, you have to, you have to be doing that, and it doesn’t. And you don’t necessarily have to go to an art opening and do the whole thing with wine and cheese. Yeah, blah, blah. But for example, if, if somebody, I mean, I’m I might be a little different, because I people shoot me messages on Instagram all the time, and I’ll respond because, yeah, like, you know, I enjoy doing that, but, but if people aren’t on Instagram or something like that, let’s say you wanted to garner the attention of a curator at, you know, whatever Museum in whatever city, yeah, you live in, or whatever, you know, you might if, if that curator, whoever is involved with some other organization, You might say, hey, you know, I’ll come and volunteer for this organization. I’m just kind of thinking it’s nice things off top my head, basically saying it’s like, if you want to be a part of the community, you need to participate. You know, yes, you have, yes, you have to be part of the community at the end of the day, right? And sometimes

Amber Cabral  38:34

artists don’t want to commune. They want to, you know, isolate and art, you know, they don’t always understand the value of like Yes. You might be, you know, a person who feels more like introverted and, you know, in your own brain, or which, I think a lot of the artists that I know kind of are that way. Yeah, I think it’s also we have to get past the idea that that’s a reason to not

Thomas  38:56

yes, and especially if you are an artist that you know, you may not have the the merit or the credentials. So, you know, if you go to art school, then it doesn’t matter if, if you it doesn’t really matter if you’re a studio rat and you’re through all the time, you’re not socializing, whatever, yeah, because you went to art school. So you have these professors who are doing things. You have the you have these other you have this built in community that you that you can lean into exactly, but if you are, if you’re an independent artist, or, you know, more self taught, or anyone, that’s that that’s even just outside of the the art school bubbles, like I was, I didn’t go to art school, so like, even if you are outside of that, you you do have to become part of the community to Be able to to garner those relationships. And so I think that that is, that’s the that may be just like a small piece of the puzzle that people are missing. And I think that that’s, that’s important to note, yeah, absolutely

Amber Cabral  39:51

okay. So I have a question I ask every guest, okay, and I’m sure you probably know, because you told me you watched the podcast. So, but I want to ask. You. And I’ll give you this little kind of foreground. Essentially, the name of the show is guilty privilege. And the reason it’s called guilty privilege is because I think privilege is something we tend to feel a little bad about or embarrassed by, or we, you know, sometimes want to hide it or be defensive about it. And really, privilege, honestly, gives us a lot of power and access. Yeah. And so I ask every guest, what privilege Do you have that you do you have that you refuse to feel guilty about? I’m gonna say that one more time. What privilege Do you have that you refuse to feel guilty about?

Thomas  40:33

I refuse to feel guilty about, leaning into my community to give me what I need. So what I mean by that is, part of the reason why I was able to maneuver the way that I have in in my field is because I had parents. I had my mom after college, let me move back in, you know, to her home, yeah, so that, you know, I could, you know, pay minimal rent, and I could spend most of my money doing my independent practice. That ended up catapulting me to other things,

41:08

right? You know, I

Thomas  41:09

have, I have friends that know if I need an opportunity, or if I need them to introduce me to someone, I’m not afraid to ask, because I’m like, Hey, we are we are we are supposed to be in community. I would do the same for for this person, and I expect them not expect, but I would hope that they would do the same for me, right? And I think a lot of people, a lot of people, kind of shy away from, from, from having that privilege that they they might not even know that they have good relationships. I

Amber Cabral  41:37

mean powerful Exactly, right? Absolutely. Thank you so much for joining me. Thank

Thomas  41:41

you for having me. All right.

Amber Cabral  41:44

Intros, okay? All right, so now I gotta introduce you. Okay, how would you like me to introduce you? Do you want me to say the executive director for the last resort artist retreat? Do you because I’m what I’m essentially going to do is say my name is Amber Cabral. Welcome to New episode. Guilty privilege today. I had the privilege of talking to Thomas James. He is right.

42:07

He is we could say,

Thomas  42:14

maybe okay. I like, Okay. I just thought about this. I never used it before, but I like it. Curator of arts and culture and the executive director of last resort,

Amber Cabral  42:24

all right, curators of our curator of arts and culture and the executive director for the last resort artist retreat. Mouth full. Let me get that all right. Let me capture what I think we talked about. Okay, here or here, okay. Oh, by the way, when I’m doing this, act as though I am introducing you to go on stage. So you kind of want to have like, that warm, smiley, whatever, that natural Should I look to the audience? You can look at me and there, what feels real. Basically, it kind of the way. But I’ll probably be here most of the time until the the end. Okay, okay. Curator of arts and culture, yes, okay. Welcome back to another episode of guilty privilege. My name is Amber Cabral, and today I had the privilege to talk of talking to I’m turning. Just tilt it towards you this way. It was a very important like, Okay, sounds like I could break it, okay. All right. Are you checking my levels? All right? Welcome back to another episode of guilty privilege. My name is Amber Cabral, and today I’ve had the privilege to talk to Thomas James. He’s a curator of arts. And damn, what is it? You

Thomas  43:54

had it? Curator of arts and culture. Culture

Amber Cabral  43:56

was the word I couldn’t get out. Okay, one more time I feel like it’s a lot of eyes on me right now. Okay, it’s okay, don’t it’s like when you watch or not, it’s still hard. Oh, all right. Welcome back to another episode of guilty privilege. My name is Amber Cabral, and today I’ve had the privilege of talking, of talking to gosh, I can’t get that out one more time. Have have either way. I don’t think nobody’s gonna catch that over complicated y’all arts and culture goodness. All right, welcome back to another episode of guilty privilege. My name is Amber Cabral, and today I have the privilege of talking to Thomas James. He is a curator of arts and culture and the executive director of the last resort artist retreat, which is amazing, by the way, I’ve had the fortunate opportunity to go. And today we’re going to talk about equity in the arts and. The importance of thinking about the way that you show up in your community when you’re trying to build the relationships that you need to grow your art career, and also why it’s important that people of color participate in the fine art world. Thanks for joining me today.

Thomas  45:14

Thank you for having me.

Amber Cabral  45:15

Are we good? Okay, all right, at that camera, oh, and say, and this is, and you’re watching guilty privilege, okay? I’m Amber Cabral, and you’re watching guilty privilege one time. I’m gonna make you smile at the end. It was forced. Yeah, all right, lipstick on them, okay, I’m Amber Cabral, and you’re watching guilty privilege. I don’t smile in fandom sentences, it doesn’t happen. I’ll try it one more time. Okay, wait, maybe I’ll smile at the beginning. I don’t know. It’s like, okay, I’m gonna try smile with the eyes, right? That’s what I did, but they didn’t like that. I’m Amber Cabral and you’re watching guilty privilege. One of those three gonna have to work, all right? One last time. I’ll do one last this is so corny, okay? I’m Amber Cabral and you’re watching guilty privilege. Finally, photos, and then you’re free. Thank you.