SUMMARY KEYWORDS

burnout, privilege, stories, work, experiences, people, hear, reclaim, framework, conversations, writing, guilty, listen, coffee, good, folks, great, talking, important, life

SPEAKERS

Amanda Miller Littlejohn, Amber Cabral

Amber Cabral 00:00

Three. Privilege is all around you. It shows up in your clothes, where you live, the places you frequent, your network capital, and even how you spend your money. It’s useless until you recognize it. So it’s time to stop feeling guilty and figure out how to use your privilege to make an impact. Welcome to guilty privilege. Welcome back to guilty privilege. My name is Amber Cabral, and today I have the privilege of speaking to Amanda Miller Littlejohn, who is my personal coach, but also an executive coach, brand strategist and writer who shares with us an exclusive framework for rest, some tips around burnout, and this is super important y’all, how we get some visibility for our brands to reduce inequity. Tune in. Hey, Amanda,

Amanda Miller Littlejohn 00:58

hey, Amber,

Amber Cabral 00:59

I am so happy to have you,

Amanda Miller Littlejohn 01:01

not happier than I am to be half

Amber Cabral 01:03

Okay, so listen, you pointed out something when we were getting ready, that this is the first time that I have interviewed you. And what’s funny about that is that you interview me all the time, all the time because we work together. So you interview me so that you know you can get information. But also, like when we do things together, you’re usually interviewing me. How’s it feel to be on the other side?

Amanda Miller Littlejohn 01:24

It’s it’s a little different. It’s exciting. I’m thrilled to see where this goes and what you ask and how it

Amber Cabral 01:33

flows. Yeah, well, I want to start out first with what I think you do really well for me, and I think what you’re known for, so you’re really good at seeing other folks skills, like their unique talents, like things that they may not have identified on their own. When did you realize that that was something that you’re good at, that you could see something in other folks that they didn’t necessarily see in themselves?

Amanda Miller Littlejohn 01:58

I think I first noticed it in college when a friend of mine, I was working at a coffee shop, and a friend of mine was trying to get this, like clothing line off the ground, and he was like, I need a publicist. And I didn’t even know what that was, but he asked me to help write his bio, and I remember writing the bio in a way that it just kind of made him say, Wow, that’s me. And that happened a few other times with people, especially when I was helping them kind of craft that narrative around what they did and who they were in the world. And I realized that I had a gift of seeing how you were showing up, but more more so even how you could potentially spread your impact and how the world received you in a way that when I captured it in words, it was mirroring to that person who they really were. So

Amber Cabral 03:00

I’m imagining that you knew it was special because of the way people reacted. Basically because I feel like most people assume that when they get a bio back or something you know about themselves, they’re gonna go, of course, like, Yeah, this is right. No change this. But I’m assuming, because I’ve had the experience with you, that you go back and read it, or the person who receives it reads it and goes, really, you know, and that kind of probably let you know, okay, maybe this is something different. So the thing about what you do, that I think, is so great, is that you take what people are uniquely gifted at, and then you help them see how to use it and tell their story. So I think there’s an amazing gift for people who are great at storytelling, and I think that’s something that you’re awesome at, but it’s a little different in your case, because you’re helping people tell stories about themselves that they might not even know they have. Can you help me kind of understand, this is me asking for the secret sauce a little bit. But can you help me kind of understand like how you have helped people to tell a story with something that they barely even knew about themselves, and how that’s helped to open doors for them.

Amanda Miller Littlejohn 04:09

Well, I think when I look at someone and I hear their story, because keep in mind, I’m a former journalist, so my whole approach is to interview you, to listen deeply and to hear all the things that you’re saying that that maybe you are aware of, and then kind of hearing the story in that undercurrent that’s flowing beneath that you may not be aware of. So I think when you when you think about it, most people, they don’t have access, number one, to their own story, like, told over, you know, the span of a few hours, like, most people don’t get a chance to sit down and tell tell you about their entire life or their entire career, like it’s a very rare experience. So that’s number one, but number two, most people don’t see. Spend every day listening to other people tell their stories so like they don’t realize that so many of the experiences that we have feel very unique to us because we’re kind of operating in isolation, like we’re not talking about these experiences at length, but there are a lot of themes, common threads. And so when people start telling me, I almost can, like, complete the sense, Oh, yeah. So then you did this, right, right? And they’re like, wait, what, right? Oh, you’re on the XYZ journey, yeah. And they’re like, What? Yeah. So a lot of times I think we are, we’re living our lives. We all have stories, but there are commonalities and almost like genres right in the stories that we all have,

Amber Cabral 05:46

right? So what I guess my next question would be, probably ties a little bit into what you’re talking about, because people being able to tell their stories creates access like it. It helps folks to open doors. So how, in addition to the access element, do you think that folks having control and command and a better understanding of their own stories and Themes help to address inequity?

Amanda Miller Littlejohn 06:14

One of the things that I noticed, especially with the people that I work with, which generally, those are high achievers of color, mostly women, but I do work with a handful of men as well. But what I’ve found over the course of this journey doing this work is so many of our thinkers and experts have kind of been conditioned to not toot their own horns, not think too highly of themselves, not brag, not boast. And what ends up happening is they adopt this extremely diminished characterization of their skills and talents and experiences. They leave out details, they diminish their accomplishments. It’s and it’s, if I had only seen it one time, maybe I would think, Oh, okay, but it’s routinely across the board. That’s what we’re doing. And when we don’t show up until that full narrative of who we are and what we can do and what we’ve done, we really take ourselves out of the running for the types of opportunities that we are capable of attracting. Yeah, no visibility, yeah, or even to have the visibility. But people think you are here when you really hear, you know, and

Amber Cabral 07:38

that’s kind of almost worse, yeah, because people aren’t getting the fullness of what you can do, so absolutely, they’re hiring you for a 10th of your skill. But right?

Amanda Miller Littlejohn 07:47

And then also, when you continue to get kind of affirmed at that lower level, yeah, you start to think that that’s where you really are, yeah.

Amber Cabral 07:56

So talk to me a little bit about authenticity. I think one of the things that can be really difficult for people thinking about their brand and their identity is, how do I make sure it feels like it’s me, and especially in the world today where, like, kind of the thing is my brand and my image, how do folks get to the authenticity? How do we make sure that that is coming through. Hey there, if you’re listening and finding value in today’s episode and want to add a couple tools to your toolbox, I’ve written a couple books that you might find useful. My first book, allies and advocates is to help you be able to show up as an ally or an advocate and to help create a more inclusive and equitable culture, whether that’s in your own life or in the workplace. My second book is a little different. It’s called say more about that. What say more about that does is help you to push back advocate and actually challenge. It gives you tips, tools and language to help you navigate difficult discussions, whether that’s in your personal space or your workspaces. So either of these tools sound like they might be useful for you. You can scroll down into the show notes and click the link and get your own copy of either allies and advocates or say more about that. Back to today’s episode.

Amanda Miller Littlejohn 09:11

You know, that’s so funny. I don’t really struggle with authenticity. You do not, because I have been in deep communion with myself for years. And I think that the more you have a practice where you are kind of connecting with yourself, whether that is you know your your exercise practice. For me, it’s journaling and music and walks in the forest, it’s hard to to not know yourself when you’re when you’re that in touch. But for people who are trying to figure out what is my authentic way of showing up, you can think about some of the things that only you do and things that you’ve been doing in this same way for years and years and years, even especially. Actually since childhood. Like, right? I’ve been drinking coffee since

Amber Cabral 10:03

you were a little girl, yeah? Like,

Amanda Miller Littlejohn 10:06

I’m ashamed to admit my toddler drinks coffee like she likes.

Amber Cabral 10:10

You are not ashamed. You’re a little a little bit,

Amanda Miller Littlejohn 10:13

yeah, she has great taste. Like she knows a good cup of coffee right when she tastes it. But, um, yeah. Like, getting back to the things that were you before the world told told you who you were, right? So getting back to those things, spending time with yourself, and really, as you’ve heard me mention a million times, like following your energy, that’s one of those things that only you can can access, right? Like you might say, Well, what do people think about me? What do people like about me? What do people know about me? Other people can answer that, but only you can answer what energizes you, what gets you excited, what makes you angry, what makes you sad, and so really getting in touch with like the answers to those questions, which is, you know how we love to conduct our sessions. Like, I love figuring out,

Amber Cabral 11:06

yes, so can you talk a little bit more about that? Like, why? Why is it that you poke at what makes me mad? Like, what I’d love for you to elaborate on that a bit, because I think, I think people often mistake anger or frustration for something that we should avoid, rather than seeing the value in that emotion. Can you share a little bit more about it? Well, especially

Amanda Miller Littlejohn 11:27

when I tap into your anger, I’m really trying to plug into what’s frustrating to you so much that you are feeling a physical response about it, and you know you want to change it. That’s typically where your great advice, your great solutions, those golden nuggets, exist in your anger.

Amber Cabral 11:50

So one of the things that I love about our conversations is that you are always listening in a way that I am unaware of, and I’m going to try to explain what I mean by that. We will be having what I think is a very casual conversation, and the pin comes out, and then you’re just kind of jotting away. First

Amanda Miller Littlejohn 12:13

of all, the pin is always

Amber Cabral 12:14

there are a slew of pins, if you’re being honest, right? And so I, I’ve, I’ve watched you where, you know, there are moments where we would be having a conversation, and then we’re having eye contact, and then the head goes down, and you’re in, you know, the mode go elsewhere, right? You’re in the mode, and you know you are still listening and still responding, but also being very deliberate about what you capture, what what I want to get to with that, because for me, I don’t capture that way, right? When I’ve captured notes, I’m more of a word or two, and that’ll take me back to what I thought I wanted to remember, because I’m usually capturing, okay, what do I want to remind myself? But you are literally saying, Ooh, that’s good. This is a story we can blow this out like your brain is doing this. Like, amazing. I don’t know root system thing, right? And so what I want to ask you is, you know, kind of, how, how can someone tap into that, like, you know, not necessarily, you know, how can they do what you’re doing, necessarily? But how can I, when I am listening to someone, really listen for, like, the meat, the stuff that’s like, Oh, I heard a bit of passion there. I recognize this is something I should drill into like, because I think it would make our conversation so much richer, because we always have rich conversations. So what is the what would be maybe a piece of advice that you could give someone who wants to be better at either hearing that in others in their conversations, or being able to see it in themselves. Wow. The

Amanda Miller Littlejohn 13:44

hearing piece, I guess, if you read a lot or you listen to a lot of good communication, whether it’s great podcast, or, you know, you read good writing from a variety of sources, and you just hear how language is used playfully and beautifully and lyrically. You know good stuff when you when you hear it, right? So it’s kind of like that. It’s like you expose yourself and champagne, you know, you know,

Amber Cabral 14:12

I know a good glass. You

Amanda Miller Littlejohn 14:13

know a good glass when you taste it, and that’s just from getting your reps in and and sampling lots of different things. But I would also say, for people who are listening, follow your energy. Sometimes when you’re talking, I’ll hear that nugget, that phrase, that’s like, Oh, that’s good, that’s gold. Like, that is the thing. Yes, that the whole that’s it. And then I’m like, we’re done. And then

Amber Cabral 14:39

I’m like, Well, what did I say, like, what was it? And I hear that. And then you come back with all this information, and listen, I just want to tell y’all, Amanda is expensive. Let me just tell you that. But she is very, very good, um, so let’s tap into the intuition piece just a bit. I love that you encourage leaning into um. How you feel, what your energy’s saying, what your intuition, what your guts giving you’re also very deliberate about curating your space and being intentional about how that perhaps impacts, you know, the exchange that you’re having with someone as well. Can you share a bit more about that? And you know, I know you really well, so I’m hoping that you’ll share a couple of, you know, nice practices. But you know, what are some of the things that you do to make sure that you’re in the position to have the kind of energy that is going to help you show up the best for the clients you’re engaging with, for whatever for the podcast you’re going to be on, what does what is getting into that energetic place mean for you?

Amanda Miller Littlejohn 15:39

And it’s so great that you asked me this question now, because I was doing this little thought experiment a while ago, maybe like a month ago. First

Amber Cabral 15:49

of all, a thought experiment. Folks,

Amanda Miller Littlejohn 15:51

listen, okay, and I was like, if I had to pack up everything and go to a deserted island and be there for the rest of my life. Like, what would I need to feel like myself? Like, what like bare bones, you know, like, what could I just not be on this island without coffee? You know, that’s so I was like, I need five things. Number one, coffee. But not just coffee, good coffee, like a specific bean, you know, Sumatra, Gaia, that’s my, my new I don’t want to be on this earth if that bean is not on this earth as well. So it was coffee, um, music, you know, give me some Glasper in there. Journaling, writing, yeah, like, you know, tools so that I can write and explore nature. And why am I blanking on my last one? That’s okay. I

Amber Cabral 16:47

mean, it’s a desert island. So

Amanda Miller Littlejohn 16:48

the desert island, yeah, oh, connection, friendship. That’s, that was the last one.

Amber Cabral 16:52

So you can take somebody with you to desert I really,

Amanda Miller Littlejohn 16:55

yes, I need some, I need some kind of way to get friendship and connection. Those are my five things that make me feel most alive and like myself. And I’ve noticed that if I can incorporate each of those five things into a day, I’m calibrated. And sometimes, you know, you don’t get everything every day, but you might at least get it once a week or a couple times a week, right? And so I found that for me, starting my day with as many of those pieces as I can really sets me up for success. So I start my day generally with journaling. I have a playlist called prayer and meditation that is just divine. I have I make a beautiful cup of coffee, and if possible, I might sit outside and listen to the birds singing while I do all of this. It depends. Or I sit near a window where I can see trees, right, and listen to the birds Right,

Amber Cabral 17:53

right? You I just knew we were gonna get a nice walk through the forest. Oh, yeah.

Amanda Miller Littlejohn 17:56

So I don’t always get to do the forest walk, because you have to, like, get to the point? Yes, but if I can at least see a tree, yeah, exactly. That makes me happy. Yes,

Amber Cabral 18:06

exactly. And happy is important, especially as we’re thinking about equity, right? We often think, when things are equitable, I will have more joy, right? When I feel like I, you know, have experiencing more access in my life, I will be more joyful. So that’s super important. I want to talk a little bit about burnout, which is kind of the opposite of this wonderful trip to the desert island that you’ve taken us on. I know that you’ve written a few articles about burnout. I also know that you work with high achievers, so you’ve seen it in others, but you also experienced it yourself. And so I would love for you to talk about burnout, but I want to share why I think it’s important, because doing the work of equity, doing the work of uncovering your privilege and recognizing you know, the best way to show up as an ally, and figuring out how to create a sense of belonging and being thoughtful about identities. I mean, the last few years could probably feel like a lot, right? And I think I encounter enough of my coaching clients who would say that they’re experiencing burnout, so I resonated a lot from watching others my own experiences, and then, of course, being your friend, that burnout is showing up. So I would love to just hear some of the things that you’ve discussed and shared about burnout, and we can kind of bat that around a bit. Hey, I hope you’re enjoying today’s episode of guilty privilege. My name is Amber Cabral and I wanted to share with you that I actually do this for a living. So if you’re interested in coaching or training or workshops or even a conversation like this one, you can reach out to me and my team by going to cabralco.com that website link is in the show notes, and we can work with you to create an experience, to bring conversations that are sometimes difficult to have to your workplace or to your team, now back to the show.

Amanda Miller Littlejohn 19:50

So I noticed just talking to a lot of my clients that we were all exhausted, but for black women, there was this added come. Opponent, this added layer of exhaustion, and we’ve been talking about how so many of us have been groomed to achieve and overachieve, and you know, work twice as hard, and your hard work is the key to everything. And I think that during the pandemic, we were really forced to examine that and see how, on top of everything else that we’re dealing with, it’s just too much, and so a lot of us begin to just think about, how am I evaluating myself and my worth outside of the work and the labor that I produce? Because historically, that has been the measure of, you know, my ancestors value as human beings, and so many of us have had to wrestle with that a bit. And you know me, I’m going to find a framework. Yes,

Amber Cabral 20:55

yes. My next question was gonna be, how are you navigating things differently? So tell me about the framework for navigating burnout. So I talked to you gonna publish it, though, because I feel like you should also publish it, but this, well,

Amanda Miller Littlejohn 21:07

it’s a part of my purpose. Scaping framework, the seasonal framework, where you can really apply the principles of seasons in nature to basically any aspect of your life that you want to nurture, grow, improve, right? And so when we think about winter, so many people ignore winter as a season, like, if we think of the framework of purpose gaping, it’s like spring, we’re figuring out what we want to do. Summer, we’re making it grow. Fall, we’re going to harvest her great work and figure out what it all means and make money, right? But then there’s another season, and that season is winter, and a time to renew, and it’s a time to rest. And so a few of the things that you can do to really lean into winter that I found, and basically what I did when I experienced burnout, I number one, had to reclaim my self care. You and I have talked about that at length. You know, I’m guilty of putting myself absolutely last, and with so many people in my life that I’m responsible for in your home, in my home, yes, not to mention outside of my home, right? It’s just, you know, you can spend a day serving everyone but yourself. And I’m talking about basic, basic stuff, like, did I personally ID, right? And so Reclaiming my self care, like making that non negotiable, Reclaiming my connection to the planet. So, you know, I realized that for me and for most people, nature is, is restorative. You kind of have to find your flavor of nature. Some people are beach people, yeah, I love trees. I have, I had to drill that down. Like, I don’t just love, you know, nature I love I want to be completely, like, engulfed. I want to be surrounded by trees. So not just at like I want to be, I want to be in the forest like I want to be in there, right? And then lastly, you need to re examine and kind of reclaim your I’m sorry, not lastly, last 2/3 reclaim your time. So a lot of people, especially clients that I was working with, will have vacation days, PTO, all this stuff that was accumulating and they weren’t taking absolutely so it’s like, okay, what is the time that I have that I can access? And for me, running my own business, I took a sabbatical, right? And then I started to build in sabbatical time within my my weeks and months, and then lastly, Reclaiming my ambition. Like, what does my ambition mean? Like, what am I driving towards? What do I want? Like, what is the end goal of all of this striving? And have I actually already gotten the things that I told myself I was working for? So just checking in with my why and my reason and so recalibrating revenue goals even or like, Okay, I want to land 20 clients this year. Well, do you really need 20 right or 10 do so that you can go on vacation and actually enjoy your life, because the children, and, you know, your youth and all the

Amber Cabral 24:27

things, right, right, right. I love that you gave us a framework. Frameworks are your thing, framework finder. Listen, you are the framework finder. Do you know how you discovered that? Like you’ve given me, I am guilty now of frameworks, like my life is frameworks. But do you know how you discovered that frameworks were really useful, like that? That was a thing that you were particularly skilled at identifying. Um,

Amanda Miller Littlejohn 24:49

I think I always knew I had a way of like, architecting things, like the way I see things, the way I approach problems. I think in like, Venn diagrams, or diagrams, like the sentence diagrams, just think of trees and structures, and then when I did my Myers, Riggs, I’m an INTJ, and that’s literally, like, what we’re known for, like we’re the architect, so I’m the person who can map out the blueprint, yeah, for whatever plan you want to create. And so I see patterns very easily. I see things very easily. And you know, when you see a lot of things and read a lot of things and kind of hear a lot of stories, you start to notice, okay, these are the common threads that are running across all of our experiences, right,

Amber Cabral 25:39

right? Especially when you’re trying to figure out your own, you know, frameworks like we do need to identify those. All right. My My next question is, why is it important for black thinkers to participate in conversations that extend beyond the conversations folks are having, you know, intercommunally, like, why is it important for the discussions that we have, the stories that we’re telling, the frameworks that we’re building, the you know, articles that we’re writing. Why is it important the brands that we’re, you know, creating? Why is it important for that to extend beyond just our own identities,

Amanda Miller Littlejohn 26:17

right, and our own communities? I I feel as though the world really misses out when our voices, our ideas and our contributions are not, not brought to the table. And that’s, let me rephrase that, because oftentimes our contributions are brought the table, we just don’t get credit. That’s right for them, exactly. And so I’m really on a mission to eradicate this idea of the hidden figure, right? I really do believe that, especially as just people of color, our erasure is intentional, right? So when we don’t claim our ideas, our expertise, our brilliance, our contribution, right? Other people are fine with that, because

Amber Cabral 27:03

it’s like, okay, good. I’m gonna take that myself. That let me,

Amanda Miller Littlejohn 27:07

you know, profit from it. And so it’s an equity issue to me, because I believe that so much of our value has already been stolen and profited off of without our benefit. And so one thing we can all do is to really, just like, be more confident about sharing what we know and really believing that there’s value in what we bring to the table, not just because you studied it, not just because you took a class, not just because you got a degree, right, but, like,

Amber Cabral 27:38

it’s my expertise. Yes, it’s

Amanda Miller Littlejohn 27:40

in you. You came to the table, you came to the earth with something unique and special that is of value. And don’t let people tell you that, because it’s not packaged a certain way. It’s not valuable. It’s not genius, right,

Amber Cabral 27:54

right? I love that shout out to package your genius. Where we all started, where I started. But okay, so I have, I have one closing question that I’d like to ask you. So this podcast is called guilty privilege, and my intention was to really highlight folks who have privilege that are using it to be impactful, right? And I wanted to do that because I think often people think of privilege as a reason to feel guilty or ashamed, or they’re just not aware of their privilege. So my question to you is, what is one privilege that you have, that you refuse to feel guilty about,

Amanda Miller Littlejohn 28:29

privilege that I have, that I refuse to feel guilty about, the privilege of time to and freedom and resources to think, if I want to spend three hours sitting in my chair, drinking my coffee, looking out the window, thinking writing in my journal, yeah, I do not feel guilty about that, because, honestly, everyone in my life benefits when I do. But that is definitely a privilege that I know, you know, people don’t necessarily have, and I’ve worked really, really hard, yeah, to to set my life up in a way that it affords me that ability. And yeah,

Amber Cabral 29:15

thank you so much for joining me. Thank you for having this was good. First time me interviewing you. How

Amanda Miller Littlejohn 29:20

did I do? Did amazing?

Amber Cabral 29:22

Okay, great, I’ll take it. Me Amazing from you goes a long way.

Amanda Miller Littlejohn 29:25

I mean, you know you did have an excellent teacher. I did. Thank