SUMMARY KEYWORDS

people, work, boundaries, conversation, talk, nba, love, relationships, feel, part, stories, privilege, helping, person, life, listen, important, thinking, community, absolutely

SPEAKERS

Lauren Ware, Amber Cabral

 

Amber Cabral  00:00

Three. Privilege is all around you. It shows up in your clothes, where you live, the places you frequent, your network capital, and even how you spend your money. It’s useless until you recognize it. So it’s time to stop feeling guilty and figure out how to use your privilege to make an impact. Welcome to guilty privilege. Welcome back to a new episode of guilty privilege. My name is Amber Cabral, and today, y’all get to meet my best friend. Y’all All right. Her name is Lauren ware. She is Director of Production Management with the NBA. And today we talk about boundaries. We’re going to talk a lot about boundaries. We talk about boundaries. We’re also gonna cover building relationships and how you can make sure that your diversity programming doesn’t have to feel so check the box. Hey friend, hi. Very happy to have you here. I really appreciate you having me now. We have a couple ground rules. Oh,

 

Lauren Ware  00:59

I need those. Yeah, you’re right,

 

Amber Cabral  01:00

because we know each other really well. So we covered a couple of these offline. But you know, please do bring all the personality Okay, okay, we gonna, we gonna hold off on some of the real good secrets. Okay, right, okay, and we say those were the outtakes. Oh yeah, okay, yeah, absolutely. And I feel like we can talk about a lot of the same things we normally talk about, but we can’t really say it

 

Lauren Ware  01:25

on my name. I mean, yeah, okay, that’s fair, okay. I mean, that was a given, but I appreciate the parameters, yeah. I

 

Amber Cabral  01:32

feel like, given our circumstances, we should probably have a few That’s you, right, yeah. Okay, so I let me start with this. I wanted to invite you on, because nobody knows what you do.

 

Lauren Ware  01:42

I know I’m like Tommy out here, at least y’all know I have a job. We know you have a job, you just don’t know what it

 

Amber Cabral  01:47

is, correct? Yeah. And so in our friend group, specifically, because you’re my best friend. So in our friend group specifically, everybody’s like, but what do you do? Can you explain it again? So I would, I would love to hear you tell us, although secretly, now I know what you do, right, but I would like to tell

 

Lauren Ware  02:05

seven years and some podcast reasons.

 

Amber Cabral  02:07

Listen, if not for this podcast, I would not know what you do, but I would love for you to tell us what you do. That’s fair.

 

Lauren Ware  02:16

Well, I guess there’s my title, yeah. I’m the Director of Production Management for MBA entertainment. I work primarily with social, digital and original content that means nothing to anyone.

 

Amber Cabral  02:28

A lot of very pretty resume words, pretty words.

 

Lauren Ware  02:30

Basically, I support our content teams who work on social and digital projects as well as original content with all of their production needs. So helping with everything from pre shoot preparation to post shoot wrapping up. So I kind of helped manage basically a project from inception to finish. So anything that you might see on our website, on our social platforms, even some of the stuff that you’ll see on broadcast and on linear I’ve helped with.

 

Amber Cabral  03:00

Okay, so it isn’t necessarily the actual basketball games, but the NBA is involved in several other things that are, you know, both connecting with the community, as well as helping folks get more connected to the NBA. So those are more the projects that you’re working on.

 

Lauren Ware  03:16

Yes, okay, yeah. So I primarily focus on a couple of different aspects. I do a lot of some of the fun stuff. You see a lot of my teams do things like NBA play, which we just rolled out, which are our games that you can play natively in our NBA app. I also focus on influencer content. It’s something that that we’ve really grown in the last seven years that’s become really important, an important an important part of our business. But also I do things like, I support our MBA coalition and our MBA Foundation, which are two of our philanthropic arms that the MBA seeks to kind of be impactful in communities where our teams are. So I support them as well with live events and with content and things like that. And that’s one of the things that I’ve really gotten to do over the last couple of years that’s been super, super rewarding. Yeah,

 

Amber Cabral  04:04

yeah. So I, I mean, I always tell you, you know, the NBA is a dream job, and you’re always like, you know, little privilege popping out right there. But, you know, I would love for you to just kind of talk a little bit about working in sports. I imagine I am no longer a sports watcher. I’m a little embarrassed by that, because I know you love the sport. I do. I understand the sports I just Yeah, I no longer consume and I can tell you why as a side, as a small deviation, here is why I don’t watch the sports. I don’t watch the sports because I like to know the people. And if you take a break and you come back, it’s all new people. So I’m like, I don’t know any I know LeBron, okay, I know Steph Curry. But when you start to get anybody younger than Steph Curry, I’m like, Who are these young folks? I don’t know who these people are. And I had the same problem with football, and I started to get frustrated with, like, not knowing the people football. A little harder, especially when they’re in helmets and, yeah, absolutely identifying features at all. But it’s

 

Lauren Ware  05:05

also a good opportunity to, like, get to know a new crop of younger stars. It’s true, and I’m obviously hopelessly biased here, but we really do have a crop of really, really amazing up and coming stars. Okay, it just takes a little investment. I’ll sneak

 

Amber Cabral  05:22

off to a game, to a game, singular, singular, one game. I went to one game last year. Okay, so now we got to get you to two. Oh, okay, maybe two. Maybe, sure, perhaps, all right, I might be able to do that. But, you know, I imagine sports is, is male dominated. I think it’s better, you know, if we’re just going based on what I would typically see, which is, you know who I see commentating, and you know who’s on the court doing the interviewing and things like that. I do see more women now, but I imagine sports is male dominated. So what’s your experience working as a woman, a black woman, at that, a black woman who is not in her 20s, in a Yeah, because we well, you know, we know. We know that the sports do like the young things that are in their 20s. They get really excited about that. But you know, you are not a young woman in your 20s, and you are working in a male dominated field. Can you give me some insights about, I don’t know, like, how does that show up?

 

Lauren Ware  06:19

Um, it’s, it’s been a journey. I will definitely say that at this point in my, in my career, at almost year 20, it’s a very different experience than, you know, in year one, okay, um, I’ve seen it grow a lot. There was a time where, you know, I’d be in a meeting, and I’d look around, and I was only person of color. I was definitely the only woman. And it doesn’t, it impacts you, it doesn’t necessarily impact your work, but you notice. And I definitely younger, fresh out of college, first big girl job, right? I didn’t know how to navigate those spaces. I knew I was an other right, just by virtue of being able to look around my environment, right? But I didn’t necessarily know what to do about that, or if I should do anything at all, because maybe you know, especially when you’re starting out talk about it. Maybe they won’t notice there’s a girl in the room if I don’t say anything. Of course, that’s not how that goes at all. I remember, actually, at my first what I affectionately call my big girl job, someone, it was actually my meeting. I was presenting a project, and someone asked me to go get the coffee. And I was like, oh, like, that should

 

Amber Cabral  07:43

not still be happening. I mean, granted, this, like,

 

Lauren Ware  07:48

it should not have been happening. It should not have and to be fair, to the credit of the people in the room, you could kind of feel the air go out of the room. I was like, oh. And you could kind of feel everyone going, do I jump in? Do I not? And I handled it gracefully, far, far more gracefully than I think I I had the poise to at the time. So that was just God the universe, whatever you want to call it. But I went from that kind of thing happening to now, I get to spend so much time with a really diverse cast of characters from every level, from executives on down to our entry level people, and I feel empowered to make it different for them. Yeah, for me, I feel like, if I’ve gotten this far in my career. Yeah, and you are still having someone ask you to go get the coffee in the meeting I’ve failed you. Oh, yeah, I could see that I have not done for you. What the edict that I have given myself to make this easier for you, because you shouldn’t have to do those things just because I

 

Amber Cabral  08:56

did absolutely so when you when, when you are working with influence are most of the influencers also male? A lot of them are, okay, yeah, because I’m just like, what when I think of a basketball I had the fortunate opportunity to be one. This is fantastic. Very wonderful human. Tristan, you were great. Just so warm. He was such a great guy. Yeah. Anyway, I just figured, like, you know, if I’m thinking about basketball, I’m gonna assume, and it’s unfortunate that that’s what comes to mind, because we do have the WNBA, yes, right? And we don’t, but we just don’t hear about it as often. And we also know that there’s a lot of pay disparity and things like that. So I’m figuring that that also probably translates into the kinds of projects and teams and like what representation looks like with all the work that you’re even touching, even though it’s not necessarily NBA specific things like basketball games, right? Wow. Okay, so interesting. I want to talk a little bit about inclusion. I know that you have a passion place for equity. I know that it shows up in your work. I know that it shows up in the way you engage with people as a whole. I would be into. Rested to hear how you talk about bringing equity to life, both at work and in your personal space, because knowing you personally, I know you are intentional about curating the kind of experience that you would like to have. And I also know that when I think about you in the workspace, you are also a bit deliberate in that space, and a previous guest and I were having a conversation about the importance to have some unity, and you’re one of the few people I think that does that well, can you share with me what does it mean for you to create an equity experience knowing that you are working in a pretty male dominated field, and one that works really well with the way you choose to live your life as a whole?

 

Lauren Ware  10:41

I think ironically, the professional part comes from my commitment to it. In my personal life, I could see that I say a lot. I bring me everywhere I go. If I can’t bring me, I can’t go exactly and I feel that way about work. I am, at my core, a black girl from Atlanta. Yes, I got a real fancy degree from Howard, and I’ve traveled the world, and I have the dream job and all of those things, but at my core, that is what I come back to. And so I bring that everywhere with me. And I think one when you show up as yourself, it gives other people permission to do the same. And then when you’re vocal about your experiences and you’re willing to share those things with people, it not only gives them permission to do the same, but they kind of come to see where you’re coming from in your work. So I think part of it is luck. I have a really good team that if I say, Hey, y’all, we’ve worked with a lot of straight white men. Can we get some women? Can we get some people of color, right?

 

Amber Cabral  11:53

You can be pointed about it. I can be direct, yeah, primarily

 

Lauren Ware  11:56

because, number one, they know who I am. We gonna

 

Amber Cabral  12:00

talk about who you are, just so, you know, they we’ve built

 

Lauren Ware  12:04

those relationships. I think one of the things that I personally don’t approach equity this way. I think it’s important to not only know your audience, but build a relationship with them, yeah? So it’s not just me saying, it’s not just me pitching a woman for a project, we’ve built a relationship so that they know when I pitch a person, it doesn’t matter who that person is, whatever their identity politics might be. They know I’ve done my research. I know who this person is. This person is a good fit. They’re going to help us be successful in whatever it is that we’re trying to accomplish. But that’s because we’ve built that relationship. Yeah, and I think that primarily why I don’t get the pushback that some people do is because I believe in taking a very personal, hands on approach. You might not know why it’s important that which we actually did. You might not know why it’s important that we reach out to contestants from Ru Paul’s drag race for Pride Month. But I do, and I need you to trust me, right? And especially because we’ve built those relationships, and because those types of things pay dividends, I think that helps people buy into the idea of, oh, I don’t have to just go to the same people I work with all the time exactly. It doesn’t just have to be men. It doesn’t just have to be one particular race or one particular sexual orientation or gender identity. There are stories to be told everywhere, yeah, and I can tap into some of those stories that maybe people aren’t telling. And honestly, I think part of it is just having that conversation with people, yeah, because sometimes, especially if you’re coming from a place of immense privilege, which you are, if you are a male working in a male dominated industry, especially if you are a white male, absolutely, sometimes just having someone pointed out to you opens your eyes in a way that maybe you wouldn’t have gotten there on your own, but you’re willing to get there if someone’s willing to have feedback,

 

Amber Cabral  14:04

the conversation open to the feedback? Yeah? So I have two directions I want to go in, and I don’t know what direction to go in first, so I’m gonna slide two questions in there, and we’re just gonna hope that, like we remember them. Okay, you know, these cards are stunts, like, you know, they give a little recommendation, yeah, the guests who helped to, you know, contribute to the background here. So yeah, this is yeah. So what I was thinking about as you were answering that is, you know, because I know you in real life. So what I was thinking about is boundaries. I was thinking about like, you know specifically so you are, you are direct. You are appointed. You are you are not afraid to say the thing that needs to be said. You are that person in our friendship. You are that person in our friend group. You we know we can go to you and you’re gonna be like some assault baby. Like, that’s not probably it. And so. Yeah, you know that coming into the workplace has to, you know, potentially show up a little bit different. I would like to hear you also, having heard some of these stories outside of work, I would like to hear you talk about what it looks like to establish boundaries in the workplace, particularly as a woman in a in the NBA, you know, like it’s male dominated. Y’all are talking about men probably most of the time. So I’m here, and I know there are some juicy stories, if you could just pull one, because I have two in mind, actually, but I would love for you to talk about that. And also, you know, specifically, not just that you know, the way that you enforce them, but I would also like you to talk about how that doesn’t deteriorate the relationships you have, because you do think, and we’ll talk about this too. This was the second part. You do value relationships, and you use them a lot, and so you don’t tear them down. But you are still you. You are still very direct. So if you can give us a bit of insight into what does it look like to in your position, have to enforce boundaries in the workplace, particularly a workplace that’s male dominated.

 

Lauren Ware  16:08

Please make a lot of loaded questions. This

 

Amber Cabral  16:10

is good. This is I wanted to arrive.

 

Lauren Ware  16:16

Wait, you said you were thinking of two stories. What were the

 

Amber Cabral  16:20

so I was specifically thinking of the stories when, gosh, I don’t want to tell them for you. Well, no,

 

Lauren Ware  16:27

I would say, Give me, give me a prompt.

 

Amber Cabral  16:29

Okay, you were, you were in a meeting, and someone exhibited a behavior that was inappropriate for the environment that required connection correction.

 

Lauren Ware  16:46

I mean, that’s every day. Yeah, I

 

Amber Cabral  16:48

feel like in this particular description that you gave, you handled it in a way that both put that person in place, which I would like to hear you talk about, and did not destroy and could not because this is somebody that you had to continue to work with, but they were essentially undermining you. I’m gonna be

 

Lauren Ware  17:09

honest. I You said that, and I know you’re thinking of a particular story, because we know each other in real life, and I’ve had these conversations I’m thinking of like 12, okay, and I’m not saying that to be flippant, but more so that is a thing that I experience even at this point in my career, but I think you kind of hit the nail on the head. What’s important is that you address it without dressing them down. And so that tends to be how I approach just about everything, really. Because I will say, if there is anything that anyone hears me say today is that you can’t let even the little things slide, no, not because it really does become a snowball into an avalanche. So avalanche, rather. So you have to nip it in the bud when it happens. So I think what’s important is you address it, and you kind of know your audience, right, because you’ve built these relationships,

 

Amber Cabral  18:12

right? And you You are very good. So taking advantage of knowing the audience, I will

 

Lauren Ware  18:15

say, one of the things, I think, is my my strong suit is I can read the room? Yeah, right. So I know, Should I, should I address it in this room, or should we have this conversation one on one? Can I address this in such a way that doesn’t derail everything else that we’re trying to do? And you kind of have to, like, feel it out a little bit. It’s It’s feel and it’s a skill that you develop as you have these conversations every day, unfortunately, but I think what it is is you confront the problem. Sometimes that’s a question, Did that feel like the appropriate thing to say? This is,

 

Amber Cabral  18:55

this is the lie. This is, this is the lie I wanted. This is the lie one you know that

 

Lauren Ware  19:01

i i have pointedly asked people, is that going to get you where you want this to go? And you can watch them go right, right? And to be fair, it kind of goes back to what I was saying before some of some people that I encounter this with, it’s not about me. No, it has nothing to do with how they want to address me. They’ve never received that pushback before, so they may not even be aware that, like, you really just try it not

 

Amber Cabral  19:30

that way. Yeah, that wasn’t it,

 

Lauren Ware  19:33

right? Um, so I think figuring out in the room, okay, I can say this, and maybe we continue the conversation out of the room, yeah? Because there’s been a lot of those too, where, like, you have to kind of, you know, gather everybody back together after. Because I think the other thing is, when those moments happen, everyone notices Absolutely. There may be a few oblivious people, but you can feel people go, yeah. You feel the

 

Amber Cabral  19:59

shift of the energy. A hint

 

Lauren Ware  20:01

exactly, and so sometimes you have to say something in the room and then continue having a conversation later. But I think for me, I try, both in my professional and my personal life, to do it from a space of communicating rather than being condescending or trying to cut someone down.

 

Amber Cabral  20:18

Condescending. You are, you are,

 

Lauren Ware  20:22

I just got a smart ass. You

 

Amber Cabral  20:23

got a smartphone, and you are so witty, so you’ll pull out like you you have the kind of quick wit. I almost wish I could be rude to you right now, just so I could demonstrate it, because you have the kind of quick wit that, like, it’ll hit so fast that you’ll be like, did she say that to me? I’m a little caught off guard. I love that like, but I feel like that’s a relationship

 

Lauren Ware  20:46

like me being a rapper, like I want you to hear my lyrics later and be like, Oh, she was spitting. Literally, I would catch it in the moment,

 

Amber Cabral  20:54

but that’s what I’m saying. That’s exactly how it is. That’s why I gave you a sign that says steak angsta, because, you know, I know that you take it with you. So one of the things about you, with the way that you enforce boundaries is you lean really hard into relationships like I have had you. I’m gonna tell a personal story. This is, this is we were younger, but I’m gonna tell a story. We were out, we had, we had consumed a lot of drinks. We were young. We were having a

 

Lauren Ware  21:18

very good weekend. This could be 12 stories. Yes, 12 stories. We

 

Amber Cabral  21:22

consumed a lot of dreams, a lot of life. I believe it was a Howard homecoming weekend. I’ll let you do that what you will. So we were we were out, and we were in a I cannot remember this spot as a spot we go to all the time to eat. And this woman kind of bumped me, and I in my less than sober mind, turned around in a slightly confrontational manner, and you very quickly gathered me like I don’t remember exactly what you said, but you put your hand behind my arm, and it was something along the lines of, I know you know better. I will never forget it. I was not at all in the state of mind that I should retain this experience, but I remember it, and since then, I have seen you do that even like when there are times where we’re together and you’re on a call, or, you know, you are having an experience that you’re kind of just recanting, like, this is what’s going on at work, and I’m navigating that you do a good job tapping into the relationship that you have with a person, to get them together real quick in a way that they only they understand. Where you’re like, Okay, I that’s kind of where I want to pull you. I would love for you to share a bit about bringing the value of the relationships that quick wittedness or whatever it might be. Some people, it’s a sense of humor. Other people, you know are just very warm. We had a guest you know earlier. She is incredibly just joyful, and I have literally watched people tell her no, and she’s like, Oh no, that’s that. I don’t think that’s gonna work. I would really prefer this. And I’m literally looking like, how are you doing this with you? I think you do a great job leveling into the relationship. Can you talk a little bit about

 

Lauren Ware  23:01

that? Thank you. You’re

 

Amber Cabral  23:02

very welcome. This is a fantastic skill.

 

Lauren Ware  23:05

I think part of it is innate. It is my nature to make friends. It is my nature to make friends out of strangers. And like I said, because that is part of who I am. I bring that to work. And so I like I care about the thing your dog did over the weekend. I want to know that, yeah, you do. I may not care about what you did over the weekend, but I want to hear about what your pets did over the weekend. And I remember, you and your wife went to Italy for your honeymoon. And I think it’s a I think part of what makes me good at many things, good at my job, a good friend, a good romantic partner, and so many other things, is that I tend to become a student of the things that I care about. And so that shows up in work, in my preparedness. It shows up in my friendships, in making sure I always have room temperature water in my house. You do come over?

 

Amber Cabral  24:11

You do I have a gluten free Thanksgiving every year? Yes, every year, because it’s

 

Lauren Ware  24:16

important to me that people feel that space has been made for them, and I think that’s also an important skill at work, because when you do have to have these difficult conversations which you have to have, I hope that what people feel is you as wylan, I am also extending you a space of grace for us to talk about it, right? So it’s never me jumping down someone’s throat or anything like that, and I feel the same way about my friendships. I hope that when I say, Hey, can we talk about this thing, I really appreciate that, right? I hope that it’s really coming from a. Base of I just want to talk to you about this, because this is important to me, and you are important to me,

 

Amber Cabral  25:06

although the sentence you’re going to use is probably you as well. I hope you’re enjoying today’s episode, and if you happen to also be looking for tools to help you navigate tough conversations, to be able to show up as a more impactful ally, or just to have resources about how to navigate equity in your world. I’ve written two books. My first book is called allies and advocates, and this book is really focused on helping you show up as a more impactful ally. It has actual tactics and tips and things that you can practice to help you get there, both for yourself and for others. My second book is called say more about that now. Say more about that. Is more about helping you to speak up, to push back, to challenge, to be able to have those conversations that sometimes get a little bit difficult. And in fact, I’ve given you actual scripts to help you to be able to do that. So if you’re interested in just having a few extra resources in your pocket to be able to help you to navigate any of those things, you can go pick up those books anywhere where you buy books, or you can pop down into the show notes and click the links and buy them there. Back to the episode.

 

Lauren Ware  26:04

Oh, 100% like first, before we get to any of that pretty stuff, we have to establish that you was wild, yeah.

 

Amber Cabral  26:11

I mean, it’s important. We need to start from a baseline. Of you tried it, yeah.

 

Lauren Ware  26:16

And now let’s talk about why you should not try me again,

 

Amber Cabral  26:18

correct? Yes, we definitely. I have seen this happen. It’s art, actually.

 

Lauren Ware  26:23

And to be fair, again, I think it comes from knowing who I’m talking to. Because for some people, I have to be a little bit more gentle, right? Hey, friends, you was wylan, right. Okay,

 

Amber Cabral  26:36

right. Let’s talk about it. Yeah, exactly.

 

Lauren Ware  26:38

I don’t ever want you to do it again, right? And then, for some people, is

 

Amber Cabral  26:43

a dog, yeah? Listen, exactly. You tried it exactly.

 

Lauren Ware  26:47

But I think what’s important is figuring out your audience. So then you figure out which message is, how the

 

Amber Cabral  26:54

message is best delivered, yeah, but at no point is it I’m not giving the message. No,

 

Lauren Ware  26:58

the message has to be given. Because truly, the message is, for me, I’m getting

 

Amber Cabral  27:05

a boundary. I’m also, you know, to a degree, I am helping you. I’m helping you. Yes, I one of the things I try to do in my conversations with clients is try to help them understand, like, feedback is me helping you, yes and like, if I didn’t like you and I actually wanted you to fail, I would say nothing. I would say nothing at all. And so for however defensive or uncomfortable it might feel like, let’s hearken back to the sentiment that has to be at the core for me to even lean into having this discussion. 100% care I care, and I want you to win, but also we can’t win like that, right, right? And I

 

Lauren Ware  27:43

think that’s, that’s an important message, right? Is, is exactly what you just said. We can’t go that way, right, but we got to go exactly. So let’s figure out our way. And I think what you’re really good at, that I have certainly tried to implement, is I try to make sure that not only am I enforcing boundaries, I want you to enforce your boundaries with me, because in respecting your boundaries, it also makes that other person feel like, Oh, this is balanced, this is fair. This is we’re communicative, equitable. I

 

Amber Cabral  28:15

am great at bound.

 

Lauren Ware  28:16

I can talk about the things that bother me. Oh, I can ask you not to do that again or to do this again. Yes, and I want that’s okay, right? And we can still continue to have a relationship, I think, because so few of us are taught that, yeah, it’s kind of a thing that we get through trial and error.

 

Amber Cabral  28:37

Some of us get badly, like we don’t do well with but I am great at boundaries. I It’s about there are boundaries. It really, I don’t talk to people on the phone before 10am. I, you know, if I do, it is an emergency, or I, you know, I love you a lot more than most, and it may just be for that day. Yeah, so, but yeah, I do. I So, I think one of the things about boundaries, even I have had this conversation before. I think one of the one of the things about boundaries, it’s so funny because I’m saying boundaries and because, you know, you work in basketball, I keep seeing a ball bouncing. My brain is very, you know, journeys through my mind. Anyway, one of the things about boundaries that I think is a common misconception, is people think that, like, the way a boundary works is, I tell you, Hey, don’t cross this line. And then when you cross it, now I want to beat you up about it and have a fit, when what boundaries really are is, hey, this is I’m not going to engage past this point. And when you pass that point, I remove myself. I make the adjustment, because it’s my boundary. And so one of the reasons why I think boundaries work so well for me is because I have already decided that this is the limit, yeah, if you have cross said limit, I’m not participating, right? Because I have let you know this is the limit, right, right? And so it translates into every aspect of my life, like, of course, you know, friendships, relationships, the work I do. You. Know, I am very responsible about boundaries, even down to one of the things I have in my email signature, I have, like a I’ve seen this more lately, but in my signature, what you see is, you know, please do not feel the need to respond to this message. My working hours are not your working hours when you’re ready to reply, reply, if it’s urgent, I will indicate that yes, because I am prone to forget to hit the lace in and you get something at 3:30am because I like evening time for work, you know, I’m gonna sit there with my Netflix on, or whatever, you know, basket, I’m gonna have a game on, okay? And, you know, right, yeah. I mean, come on now, play along. So I’ll have a game on, and then, you know, I will be working on my things and forget, right? But I don’t want someone to be like, Oh my gosh, email me at three in the morning. You expect me to be No, I do not. I don’t. And so I think boundaries are it’s a conversation. I think that needs to happen more just for that fact that people are so confused about the difference between this is my boundary violated. And I’m like, oh, and really, all

 

Lauren Ware  31:04

of boundary violation is, to me, is an opportunity to have a conversation. It is, it absolutely is. It doesn’t mean we have to have a fight. It doesn’t mean that we have to disagree. Because exactly what you said, I’m not telling you how to behave. Really, I’m indicating for you. If this, then that, right? If this behavior happens, then

 

Amber Cabral  31:24

this behavior happens. Here will be the response, yeah, choose your own adventure exactly. You want this behavior Exactly. And so

 

Lauren Ware  31:33

I think when you approach it that way, and it’s not a confrontation, it’s not a battle, it’s not my boundaries versus your boundaries. It’s okay. How can we make this work? Right? Like I actually I have a direct report, and one of the things I told her when she started was very similar to what you just said, I am a night owl. Yeah. So I respond to things when I respond to things exactly, please, don’t feel like you need to be checking your email at three o’clock in the morning to respond to my email. I’m good, right? I’m trying to get it off of my place, exactly, but I find that you do have to have those conversations with people, especially for us, we work in a kind of 24/7

 

Amber Cabral  32:12

environment. Oh yeah,

 

Lauren Ware  32:13

we have an off season, but it’s not really off season anymore. We have tons of events that we do over the summer. So yeah, I work non traditional hours, right? And so my boundaries are such that there are times during the day where I need a minute, I need to go actually do some work. I can’t talk to you exactly. There are times where I’m up late, right? And I’m responding to these things because, you know, maybe I didn’t get a chance to I was on set, I was traveling or something during the day, didn’t get a chance to respond to them, so I’m responding to them at midnight. Yeah, when I land wherever I’m going, right

 

Amber Cabral  32:50

and midnight, probably not midnight.

 

Lauren Ware  32:54

It’s still fine for you to respond during your work access, because those are specific to you. And I think that once you get out of a place where boundaries are a confrontation instead of a conversation, everybody feels better. I agree, and I think that’s people

 

Amber Cabral  33:12

need to know what they are to begin with,

 

Lauren Ware  33:14

because if I don’t know, how do I know that I’m stepping on your ticket? Because

 

Amber Cabral  33:19

that’s the other thing I think that happens wrong with boundaries, is people don’t communicate. Yes, and so now you’ve stepped off into this territory, and you like, I had no idea this would make you just

 

Lauren Ware  33:27

made up in your mind. Isn’t this how everyone acts, everyone should not do or should do XYZ? And that’s not everybody thinks

 

Amber Cabral  33:33

that was exactly, exactly 100% I think that’s so true. Okay, I want to circle back, because remember, you know, I had a few questions pile up, but I want to slide this one in there, because I think it’s really important. It’s really important. I think you do a really good job, because I’ve seen the work that you do at the NBA. I think you do a great job of making Dei, which, you know, respect to the NBA. I feel like they show up pretty well in that space. It feels very organic. It doesn’t feel like there’s an extra like. I haven’t seen any, like, we’re having the DEI scholarship program, you know, like, it’s not, like this really absurdly on the nose. Yeah, effort, yeah. Can you talk a little bit about what it looks like to, you know, to be intentional and actually have diversity, equity, inclusion, or, however y’all frame it there, because everybody’s got their acronym show up in the NBA in a way that doesn’t feel like, you know, okay, another one check the box. Yes.

 

Lauren Ware  34:25

I think part of what’s important is not feeling like you have to check a box. Yes. I like, I recognize very much so why people have put quotas and statistics and

 

Amber Cabral  34:39

in some cases, they’re necessary, right? It’s guiding, measurable, yes, right? You

 

Lauren Ware  34:43

need to be able to look back on the work that you’ve done and say, we’ve made X amount of process progress, um, where I think people get caught up is they get married to the box and not to the people

 

Amber Cabral  34:56

right behind the box. Oh, yeah, that’s great. That’s super on the. Those Yes, and

 

Lauren Ware  35:01

for me, I think there’s in this role in particular, there’s the corporate side of things, where I will say, we’re not a perfect company by any means, no one is, but we truly have tried to have tough conversations. We’ve tried to put money behind our efforts. It’s part of the reason why I’m I am obviously not the person to speak directly to their work, but why I’m so proud of the work that the NBA Foundation has done and the NBA coalition has done, yeah, because they are making real strides. Yeah, that that genuinely impact people’s lives, right? Actually, I’ll speak to one of the the events that I worked on. I got to go to DC a few months ago to work with the NBA coalition. One of the things that they’ve been working on for quite some time now is the

 

Amber Cabral  35:55

NBA coalition. So do I know what that is? So

 

Lauren Ware  35:58

it’s an a philanthropic arm of some of our efforts. It is a partnership between the league, the Players Association, and local kind of governments and municipalities. One of the things that we worked on we I think they started far before this. And again, I am probably really misrepresenting all the amazing work that they’ve done. But we started having this conversation around all star last year in Salt Lake City, because one of the initiatives on the ballot was what is called a clean slate law, where essentially, and of course it would, it would kind of differ depending on the state and the legislation, if you have gone a certain amount of time since having a criminal act on your record, it would expunge that record so you no longer face barriers to housing, to jobs, to opening a bank account, to so many things that so many of us that have not interacted with the prison system don’t think about, right? And so many barriers to really being able to start your life. So it really does literally give you a clean slate. Yeah, and so this is one of the things that they’ve supported in various states. We got to go to DC to actually bring together politicians, thought leaders in the space, members of community groups who are doing this work, to just talk about where these laws are, why they’re important, how they impact people. And I truly didn’t even realize, even in having one of our early kind of briefing calls about the event and what this is going to look like, and all of that. And I don’t want to call the number, because I’m sure I’m going to misquote them, but the 10s of millions of people that this type of law could potentially help. I can imagine. I knew it was a lot, but to hear them call the number was astonishing, right? And so the fact that the Players Association and the League have partnered with people doing this work in communities to tangibly impact people’s lives, I think is so important, and I’m really proud to see that we’re doing that. I’m proud to see that we, through our foundation, we are providing money to community organizations that really, really need it, where the economic empowerment that we see in those communities is so important to mobility and so we have that kind of corporate side of it, where we’re doing these things through, through some of our organizations. We even have, I sit on a ton of employee experience committees and things like that, just about what is the employee experience like, and just being able to have those conversations is so important because I think we’ve seen in the last few years, you know, people are happy to slap a black box on social media, but when you have a conversation about, hey, we’re going to have our HR department pull data about our staffing and our retention, we’re going to have A difficult conversation about the patterns that we’re seeing, right? That’s a different level of commitment, which I’m really happy to have seen. But then also just kind of on the production and on the content side. I think a lot of times, first of all, when people hear diverse, let’s be real, they think Black immediately,

 

Amber Cabral  39:38

as though they are black, or they think queer, depending on, you know, yes, the further west you go in this country,

 

Lauren Ware  39:48

or, you know, the particular affinity group that’s being celebrated, that’s it. But truly, there are so many diverse identities, absolutely, that just being able to have those conversations. Conversations is important. And I think a lot of times, even especially if you’re talking about if you’re talking about race, when people hear, let’s tell a story that has something to do with black culture, they think, let’s talk about civil rights. Yeah, let’s

 

Amber Cabral  40:20

talk about Martin Luther King. As you already know, they will listen. I tell people all the time, please stop carting these men out every single February, every Listen,

 

Lauren Ware  40:31

according to Larry and forgetting the context, yes.

 

Amber Cabral  40:35

And you know, unfortunately, Martin Luther King is a double time, because His birthday is in January. So we roll him out then, and then we roll him out again on February 1 long which, you know, Rosa Parks, Frederick Douglass, the heavy hitters, right? Yes,

 

Lauren Ware  40:51

yes. Like one of the things we really tried to focus on. I actually lead a content team that sits within our larger content department that is focused on really telling the stories of just underrepresented communities and voices. Oh, yeah. And that was one of the things that we had to talk about early was guys, it does not have to be about how life was so hard and then there was a triumph. And it doesn’t have to be that. It could be about, you know, this local, family owned restaurant that players like to go to in their home market, and the recipes of their culture and why it’s so important for them to share it with their community. It could be,

 

Amber Cabral  41:37

hey there. I hope you enjoying the episode. And, in fact, if you are you can bring me to your organization or event to help you bring conversations like this to life in your workspaces. This is something I do for a living. I do coaching, I do training, I do executive consulting, whatever it is that you might need as it relates to trying to figure out how to activate allyship or equity in your space. It’s probably something I can support. So if you’re interested in how we can work together, you can reach out to me@cabraco.com or pop down into the show notes and click the link book a discovery call, and we will chat with you soon. Back to the show.

 

Lauren Ware  42:12

A million things. It’s the stuff that you’re already doing,

 

Amber Cabral  42:15

yeah, it’s the stuff you’re already doing, and it’s getting exposure to it through just do through someone else’s lens. Like, I don’t remember if I said this on the podcast. But I say it often, because it’s something that comes up in conversations with clients that I coach. But I always make the recommendation if anyone ever goes through coaching with me, one of the things they have to do is do a bit of a culture exchange. So if you’re a book reader or you’re a listener, you know basic i One of the things I immediately make them do is partner with someone who is different than you, whatever that difference may be, and ask them to send you. You know, specifically, when you’re talking about racial identity and gender identity, this is super impactful, but like, ask them to send you their favorite books. Yeah, give me five books that you read in the last five years that you would recommend, right? Because you will diversify where you are putting your dollars just by changing what you’re reading. I love that you will diversify where you’re putting your dollars just by changing what you’re listening to. And so I done this with a client years ago who listens to Americana. I was so nervous. I know which way. I mean, like, you know, country in America very different, but when I tell you, it was hip hop, but like, white, yeah, you know, like, I was like these, let’s be very clear, there’s, there are things that are problematic in music, universally, absolutely, there are conversations that are problematic and completely oppressive and discriminatory. Universally, I’m in no way suggesting that that is absent when you do this activity. But what it does do, and what it has done for my clients, and, you know, and sometimes the music exchange they’ll do is with me, which is what was the case with this client. And you know, we both came back to the conversation like this song you sent me by whoever the roots, and this song that I sent you by whoever you know, this is the same story this. And so you get a chance to now I realize that, like the places that I thought there were difference, there’s more connectivity, and I am now putting myself in a better position to invest my dollars in a space that I would have otherwise thought was not for me, and so that that’s that kind of ties back to what you’re talking about. It’s just like this intentional thoughtfulness that is a part of what you’re doing anyway. You’re gonna listen to the music, you’re gonna read the books, right? You’re going to the meeting, right? We are going to produce content. So if we’re going to do those things right, can we just make sure that we are weaving the thread of this into it, so that it comes to life in a way that doesn’t feel like,

 

Lauren Ware  44:50

yep, look what I did exactly. I did a black history blog post,

 

Amber Cabral  44:56

right with Malcolm X, right? Yes,

 

Lauren Ware  44:59

but I. I think it’s, I think it’s exactly that. Again, if you’re coming from a place of privilege, it has maybe never occurred to you to explore music genres outside of what you comfortably listen to. And so when you present it to people as a thing to experience, and not a thing you have to do to check the box, right? It changes the way they interact with that thing. 100 and again, where I think my personal life and my professional life somewhat collide, I have chosen in my life to approach everything with a sense of wonder. Yeah, it’s a thing I can learn. It’s a thing I can experience. Do it for the plot like, right? It’ll be fun. It’ll be a great story. It’ll be a great story. And I think part of what I try to do as a leader is I don’t want to give you an assignment until you have to have one black person and one brown person and a queer person. We see that in commercials, you know, where you can very much so tell the casting director sat down and was like,

 

46:04

okay, she must be right. She must have currently like

 

Lauren Ware  46:07

this in the shot. And yes, right. And for me, what I try to do is, as a leader, I want to create the space for you to do the job that we’ve asked you to do, and do it well, I want to give you the tools to do what we’ve asked of you. I don’t need to do it, right? That’s not why I’m here. Right? My job is to create the environment for you to thrive in, to thrive and to do to bring you to it, to do the thing that we asked you to do, so you don’t feel uncomfortable in a room when you want to pitch a story that doesn’t center someone straight, white and male, you don’t have to feel self conscious about that, because we’ve created the environment around you where stories are stories and stories are everywhere. And certainly, we’re all human. We don’t get it right. We have all of our own biases. But I think when you’re having the conversation, at the very least, it allows people to think, oh, what else could I do?

 

Amber Cabral  47:08

Right? Which is really what we need people to do in their day to day, not just at work, but in your day to day. And I also think when you think about that, that takes you back to the boundaries, because when you go, Okay, what else could I do, you’ll be able to say, Okay, well, here’s what I’m not gonna this is awful. Take it to this up to this, right? And so you know, when you the deliberateness of those thoughts can help you to frame you know what the go forward looks like in the workplace, even when you have a fancy job like the NBA. So I have a I have a fun question. I have two questions. I have my final questions. I’m gonna ask that. I ask everybody, but I’m gonna ask you this first, because we touched on it, and because I know you, so, can you give us five it’s this is being recorded January of 2024, okay, can you give us five song recommendations? Oh, okay, I would love a rich, robust set of records. I know what you listen to. So I would you know to the degree that you are willing. Okay, can you give us five? You can’t give us five. You give us at least three. I said, Let

 

Lauren Ware  48:08

me, let me give you three. Okay, um, I’m trying to think of what I’ve been listening to lately, because my musical taste is, this is why I’m asking. So it’s hard to be like, what was the last thing I was listening to? Because I was probably listened to a song where I heard that one random word that made me go look for this random song

 

Amber Cabral  48:24

Exactly. Let’s see I old or new. No boundaries.

 

Lauren Ware  48:29

I mean, I’m old, so my musical tastes in about 2010 No, I’m I’m kidding. I think, like many people, I am still regularly listening to songs from Renaissance. So I know I just listened to plastic off the sofa very recently. Okay, that is my jam. You know, secretly, I love country music. Yes, I

 

Amber Cabral  48:55

do know this. I do know Yeah, and

 

Lauren Ware  48:59

so, oh, and now I’ve now that I’ve said that I’ve forgotten the name of the song. It’s a Miranda Lambert song. I love her.

 

Amber Cabral  49:06

I like Miranda Lambert. I love her. Lambert. I’m not. I would not describe myself as a country. You are a country. I am a country fan. I would not describe myself as a country fan, but I do like Miranda. Okay, she’s awesome.

 

Lauren Ware  49:18

Yeah. Actually, when I was living in Texas, I went to the rodeo. I lived in Houston. Houston has a rodeo every year. It’s a very good time. Okay, you should absolutely go, all right, it’s, it’s, it’s amazing, like they do. It’s a rodeo, like a rodeo. So much fun is such a good time. My favorite part is the mutton bust busting. Kids basically trying to ring wrangle sheep.

 

Amber Cabral  49:44

Oh, wow, that’s probably super cute. Okay, the most adorable

 

Lauren Ware  49:48

thing you’ve ever seen, but part of what they do is musical acts. And I actually got to see Miranda Lambert at the rodeo, and I was like, that feels very appropriate. Let me go download all her music. I like her. She’s good. Like her a lot. Okay, one more. What else have

 

Amber Cabral  50:06

I give her something like, you know, like Southwest Atlanta home, just

 

Lauren Ware  50:09

about to say, You know what I was listening to on the way over there. I wish I could tell y’all that I was listening to something super empowering and positive and all of those things I was listening to. Shout it low,

 

Amber Cabral  50:24

oh, right, correct.

 

Lauren Ware  50:27

They know speaks to my Atlanta heart. They

 

Amber Cabral  50:30

know is is core to the community. Is essential. Like

 

Lauren Ware  50:36

it puts a battery like that. Like I can run through a concrete wall when I hear

 

Amber Cabral  50:42

it, and I am confused about why you thought that was not motivational. I mean, it’s motivational

 

Lauren Ware  50:46

to me, recognizing that, recognizing that sometimes music can be problematic, it can it might not be motivational. An artist can be problematic, but that is, in fact, my shit.

 

Amber Cabral  50:59

Yeah, uh approved. So

 

Lauren Ware  51:02

that’s top very recent top three.

 

Amber Cabral  51:04

Okay, so that was three good recommendations. I like that. I might infuse that question with some other folks. That was a good one. Okay, all right, so I ask everyone this question. The show is called guilty privilege. It’s called guilty privilege because what I want people to come to understand is that we all have some privilege, and instead of what most of us do with it, which is get a little uncomfortable, try to hide it, get defensive, you know, I want folks to instead see their privilege as an opportunity. And so I’m trying to just dispel this energy around you know, oh, well, you got that because you went to Howard or whatever I want. I want folks to understand that like your privilege is there for you to use. And so my question for you is, what is one privilege that you have that you refuse to feel guilty about?

 

Lauren Ware  51:47

Um, you know, I listened to your show, and so I knew you was gonna ask me this question, and it’s still a hard question. Um, I think, honestly, the part that, and I’ll be very candid, the part that trips me up is refused to feel guilty about, because so much about my life experience as a woman, as a black woman, growing up in a very religious household, tells you to feel guilty absolutely

 

Amber Cabral  52:12

yes, everything that’s right. We’re programmed Yes,

 

Lauren Ware  52:17

100% you know what I’ll say, and I’ll say this because it’s very much so still a work in progress for me is I refuse to feel guilty about paying for my convenience.

 

Amber Cabral  52:28

Oh yeah, that’s a good one. That’s a good one.

 

Lauren Ware  52:32

I have to work on it. I’m not 100% there not feeling guilty about it, but I am definitely at a place where I have to find ways to buy back time.

 

Amber Cabral  52:43

Get the housekeeper. Yes, somebody can deliver the meals you have the Instacart like we have whatever Yours looks whatever Yours looks like. Do that? Yes, because

 

Lauren Ware  52:55

what I have found as I’ve gotten older as I’ve gotten busier, is that I don’t have nearly as much time to do the things that I really want to do because of some of the things that I have to do, right? And so anywhere I can claw back time for myself, be it just so I can sit on my couch, oh my gosh, whatever it is, any place I can try to pay for my convenience to buy back that time for myself. I’m trying to get in the habit of doing. Yeah, and it’s a hard thing. I can see that because it’s certainly, it is great. I am a fan, but it’s a hard thing because we are, we’re taught that like you should

 

Amber Cabral  53:37

be able to, you should be able to do all of this. Yeah, and it’s not reasonable. It’s not, it’s not. There’s a point at which, especially it becomes unreasonable if you have any degree of like travel in your life,

 

Lauren Ware  53:47

like I’m on the road all the time, and I wouldn’t change that at all, right, um, but being able to come home from a week on the road and know that groceries are going to be delivered

 

Amber Cabral  53:59

to my home already there? Yes, it means

 

Lauren Ware  54:03

that that’s an hour. I can rest, I can unpack, I can get back into my space.

 

Amber Cabral  54:08

Got Atlanta traffic with growth, you know, might be more than an hour.

 

Lauren Ware  54:12

Um, so it’s I it is something I will be totally honest and say I still often feel guilty about. I shouldn’t be spending money on that. You could put that towards something else. Yeah, you know, there’s people that don’t have this privilege, and that is all of those things are true. But for me, it means that I can invest in myself, in my friendship, in my family, in a way that is, that is more impactful, right? And so I’m working on it. I don’t know that I can say I don’t feel guilty about it yet, but I’m working but I’m

 

Amber Cabral  54:43

working on it. I’ll allow it. I think you should, I think you should not feel guilty about it. I had a conversation, you know, you know, I just moved, and when I was moving, one of the movers said to me, young man, you know, a parent, I think he had two young children under both were under the age of seven, mm. Yeah, and I mentioned that my assistant was going to something. I don’t remember. I was, I think what it was I was going out this was I was going out of town, and my bed had to be put back together. And it was so late, my move was a chaos measure. So I was just like, don’t worry about it. My assistant is gonna get put back put together. And he said, your assistant. And I was like, oh, yeah, I need help. Yeah, you know, I need help, so I pay for help. And he was like, Oh, I think that you should be responsible for your own home. I don’t think you should be doing that

 

Lauren Ware  55:29

being responsible

 

Amber Cabral  55:30

for I said exactly that. I literally said, you know, just live a little longer. You’ll come to realize that I am absolutely taking care of every and this allows me to be able to take better care. And in your case, I especially think you should think about it, because you’ve got two small kids, and there’s gonna come a day where one got basketball over here and the other one got hockey over there, and you gonna be trying to figure out how you gonna How am I in two places at once? Yes, and, you know, and so having someone that can help it is a thing that I do understand, the guilt that comes with it, because it’s, it’s it feels extra, yes, but it’s so it is. You’re doing good things, you’re you’re stimulating the economy, you’re, you know, small business often, you know, depending on what service you’re supporting. And then, in addition to that, you also have the benefit of getting your time back, so that you can spend more

 

Lauren Ware  56:14

time with your children and and actually, I think part of what you just said really resonated, because what I also find is, even when I’m not necessarily paying for my convenience, the fact that I’m being thoughtful about it also reinforces for me that I have to lean into community. I have to ask for help, right? If I have a furniture delivery coming and I know I’m on the road, I have to ask someone, Hey, can you do this for me? Can you go to my house and receive this delivery rather than, okay, let me figure out if I can get them to come and on this day, and then I only got an hour here and like, yes, it kind of forces you to be in a place where you’re reminded that, oh, we really are supposed to have a village. Yes, whatever that looks like. I know we love to lean into our rugged individualism, it is true, but that that’s another conversation for another day. But community is so important. And I think really that’s kind of a through line of what we’ve been talking it is here. It definitely is. Community is important. Building relationships is important. Leaning on those relationships is important, because you really do find that it impacts your life in a measurable, tangible, really wonderful way, healthy.

 

Amber Cabral  57:29

Do healthy was the Word, yeah, healthy way. Absolutely, absolutely. Thank you for joining me. Of course, thank you.

 

Lauren Ware  57:37

I know I’m proud of us. I am proud of because that was not what I was expecting. I was expecting a lot more outtakes and a lot more Ma’am, you can’t say that. We don’t have to edit that out. We did really well. I

 

Amber Cabral  57:50

appreciate you coming on the show.

 

Lauren Ware  57:52

Thank you for having me. I this was great. I really enjoyed myself. Good. You.