SUMMARY KEYWORDS

photographer, photos, pictures, photography, light, feel, work, black women, talk, shoot, wardrobe, people, capture, share, care, privilege, client, navigating, thoughtful, comfortable

SPEAKERS

Amber Cabral, Danielle Finney

Amber Cabral  00:00

Three. Privilege is all around you. It shows up in your clothes, where you live, the places you frequent, your network capital, and even how you spend your money. It’s useless until you recognize it. So it’s time to stop feeling guilty and figure out how to use your privilege to make an impact. Welcome to guilty privilege. Welcome back to another episode of guilty privilege. My name is Amber Cabral, and today I had the opportunity to talk to my favorite photographer. Her name is Danielle Finney. She is the owner of D Phinney photography, and she is a natural light photographer, and also she is responsible for this beautiful branding that you see for this podcast. She has taken my pictures for the last, I don’t know, probably six or seven years, and I love every single time she does it. We’re going to talk today about the equity in photography, why it’s important to her to make sure that folks are represented in natural light the way we see them, and also a little bit about what it’s like to do business when you are also navigating mental health. Thanks for joining me, Danny,

Danielle Finney  01:10

thanks for having me. Girl,

Amber Cabral  01:13

I am so happy you’re here. Danny, I’m happy. Very excited to talk to you. I also feel like just in general, having conversations with people who are typically behind the camera. On camera is a very nice, let’s just say, way of like, experiencing some levity, because I’ve definitely been on the other side of your lens, and now you’re joining me on this side, which is fantastic. Okay, so I’m gonna start out just really like, talking about the skill of photography, I think you are an amazing, amazing photographer. You did the cover art for this podcast. I use your pictures almost exclusively online, like your work is, well, it’s amazing all the time. I’m gonna say that a lot more, but I think having the skill of taking photography or understanding photography is super important, especially now, when digital cameras are so accessible, we have them on our phones. We have we’ve had people, literally, I got a wedding invitation the other day where people like you cannot bring your phone in because the people are in the way everybody thinks they’re, you know, able to take pictures. Now, cameras in general, are accessible, so even if it’s not on your phone, so now folks are just kind of picking it up and doing it. How did you know? How did you know that you you had a skill, a skill that I so thoroughly enjoy. But how did you know, by comparison of just like, it’s accessible to everybody right now? So

Danielle Finney  02:38

that’s a great question. And I tell you what one thing that comes to mind, just as you said, say, this is that for a long time, early, I didn’t consider myself a photographer. Like it took a while for me to claim that, but I guess once I explained like, how I got into it, that may make sense. So I got into photography through graphic design, and this was, I feel so long ago, I think it was 2009 Yeah, so that’s when, actually 2009 is the marker for the start of my business. But I was taking pictures and doing design work and stuff prior to that. So let’s say around about the time that I, like, graduated, was in college. So that’s 2005 those, those early years. Yeah, I got into photography strictly to edit photos like I loved the just the design aspect of things. So I was like doing funky edits and doing things with, I don’t even know what are those things called, let’s say scrapbook, scrapbook kind of edits, like digital scrapbooks, gotcha making I did, like, programs, business cards, like all of that stuff. And so honestly, initially, my business was actually called dfini, photography and design, because I did both, and I loved both, and only did I like switch over once I realized, like, Well, I think I like the photography a little bit more. So how did I know? Um, let me tell you the the short version of the story. Um, I got laid off from my job in 2009 and that’s like, that’s why, that’s my official like, marker, mark, right, right? And that’s the recession was happening, and it was a little bit hard for me to find something else. And so, because I was already shooting on the side, I said, Well, let me do this a little bit more, since I don’t have a job right now, until I find something else, yeah, but because I hustle exactly, but because it kept me busy, and I really enjoyed it, I was like, well, maybe right. Maybe

Amber Cabral  04:41

start businesses this way, by the way. Oh, this is my side hustle. Oh, wait a minute, I actually need this money. Yeah, yeah. And I

Danielle Finney  04:49

tell people a lot that personally, because of how I am, I don’t think that I would have made the leap. Hmm. Like, if I still had a job. So I’m grateful for how that worked out, because I’m always the kind of person who’s like, I gotta have all my ducks in a row and feel like I need to, like, have the answers. So yeah, so because of who I am, like, I would not have started if I still had my full time job, right? Um, so yeah, I kind of just once I was in the pool, so to speak, then I was just kind of figuring it out. So then I was like, Okay, well, I’ll try this and I’ll try that. And so I experimented, and that’s how I grew, you know, my style was framed, not framed. What’s the word improved, if you will. I honed in on the things that I liked, and yeah. So the feedback that I would get from people was really helpful, because I may like something, but because of the kind of work that I do, like my client needs to like, and my client needs to enjoy Absolutely. So that’s the like, the long and short answer to the question,

Amber Cabral  05:53

yeah. No, fantastic. I so I think it sounds like what really was critical for you discovering that you were good was that you had a chance to explore, like you played around in some spaces. I remember when I first started following you, you used to remind people like, I do not do wedding photography. I do not I don’t enjoy it. And I was like, Oh, wow. But these pictures are amazing. So I can imagine people probably go, Well, can you come shoot all of the things in my life? And you’re like, No, not actually, right? So

Danielle Finney  06:18

I mean, and I tried, I did experiment, yeah. And that’s what I always tell people. I’m like, you have to, like, try those different things to then see what it is that you actually like. Because in the beginning, you do want to shoot everything, until you realize, well, I don’t really get light up the same way when I’m when I’m doing this. Because when I try newborn photography, Ma’am, let me tell you that newborn photographers are just blessings. Those are just those are angels, okay? Because that was a lot, that’s a lot of work, yes,

Amber Cabral  06:47

and they’re adorable. The babies are beautiful. You have no control of the baby. Not at all. Yeah, absolutely, I can see that. So one of the reasons I like to shoot with you is that, and I chat with a lot of different photographers before you, some of whom I am still friends with and love dearly. I continue to shoot with you, because you make me so comfortable like you. You, first of all, I think you are very I called you precise when we were off camera. You are very precise. You take care of things. You’re thoughtful about the client experience. All of that is absolutely part of it, but also just generally, like the actual taking of the photos, the experience of that feels so thoughtful and intentional, and you really create a sense of comfort for me that I don’t have to wonder, like, Oh man, this is my first time wearing these pants, as many of us do when we’re taking pictures, right? And being like, do I look right? Is it okay? Like, I don’t have to have any of that with you, versus my experiences with other photographers, and also, just like, even your approach to posing and like, it’s, I love it. I would love for you to just share, like, what are some recommendations that you have, either for other photographers or even for people that are trying to get their pictures taken? What? What do we need to be thinking about when it comes to taking photos and actually loving the experience. Yes,

Danielle Finney  08:01

well, thank you. You’re welcome. It’s a lot, and when I say it’s a lot, I don’t mean to be to say that in an overwhelming way. My method and my process was formed over many moons, like it took a while to get to this point, and because of that, that’s why I feel like it’s so thorough. We touch on so many different things beforehand to make sure that when we get together the day of and during our time, we’re firing on all cylinders, and we know that your wardrobe is going to work because we have discussed that previously, not just discussed that I had to take pictures. Yes, pictures. Yes, I always ask that people like, you know, try their wardrobe on in advance with the undergarments that they’re gonna wear. Yes, because that makes a difference. You need to see how everything is gonna fit and lay, sit, stand, turn around. You need to be comfortable in all of those different ways. A lot of times, what happens is people put an outfit on and they stand in front and they stand in front of the mirror, and that one of the mirror in that one position. They go, Yeah, okay, this is good. I like this. Yes, that’s not what we do on the photos. I need movement. I need for you to be comfortable when I ask you to sit down or to lean over a little bit or just move right. So that’s one of the things. So, yeah, so that wardrobe piece is super important, and I’m trying to think, what’s what I’m trying to give you are, I guess, like, actionable things that that everyone can do. Because when we talk about how thorough my process is, like, I know everyone is not going to do that, yeah, because it’s time consuming, not only because it’s time consuming, but some people just don’t care about the things that I care about, yeah, um, and so a lot of times you, you may look at a picture of me like, oh, you know, everything is so perfect and everything’s in place. It’s not an accident. It’s because we, we took care of those things. So let’s see after wardrobe, or not, after wardrobe. Actually, this is before wardrobe. Let me, let me wind it back. Be. Before you even start the process, you need to know why you need to take pictures like your What are your session goals? What’s the reason? Yes, what are these pictures going to be for? I

Amber Cabral  10:11

want to say this at this point. You send me that form every time we take pictures, every time, every single time, and every time I’m like, dang, I don’t know, but it makes me think it really does my answers for I think there’s a question you have that’s sort of along the lines of, like, you know, what do you want your brand to feel like? Or, you know what I’m saying something every single time I have to stop and go like, Oh, feel like, okay, when someone experiences my brand, what do I want it to feel like? You know what I mean? And we don’t. We don’t consider that. I think in a typical like, Oh, I’m going to take pictures. We’re thinking exactly what you said. I need to make sure my looks are cute, right? Put them off, right? We put them on in the mirror. We look online for makeup artists, and, yeah, we’re ready. That’s it. But like, you are 100% right? That form does make a difference. It makes you think critically about the photos.

Danielle Finney  10:57

Yes, so that’s the first piece. Like, before I mentioned wardrobe first because we were thinking about that. But even as it pertains to, like, family photos, or just because your goals, of course, are not going to be the same as they would be like if you were taking brand photos, but it’s still good to kind of, I guess, like, have a reason, like, why do you want to take these pictures? And a lot of times, though, the reason that my clients will give for things like that are, you know, maybe it’s been a while, yeah, we want to capture the kids as they are now. And that helps, because then when I go into the session, I know, okay, we really want to highlight the kids, yeah. We really want to highlight their dynamic, right? We really want to highlight the special relationship that this, this daddy daughter dynamic, yes. So those are the things that I’m able to capture when I do ask those sessions, those pre session questions, and it helps to guide them along the process, because your average person is not thinking about that, yeah, so I feel like I’m getting a little

Amber Cabral  11:55

No, I think it’s super helpful. No, that’s that. What you’re saying makes sense, because it’s like before I talk to a client in my business, I want to know certain things. I want to know You know, first of all, who you are. So send me your website, share your socials. Let me take a look at that on my own. But also like, what do you want from us? So what I really like about the intake form is, now that I’m thinking about it, we do the same thing, and so I don’t think I would have thought about what my pictures were for, but I’m imagining that process also helps me say, Okay, wait a minute, what kinds of photos do I want? So I am going to use them. Yeah, because I’ve also taken pictures with people and walked away and been like, these are nice, but I don’t really want to post these, right? Well, I use these. I’m just gonna keep them. I mean, they’re good, but I don’t know that they fit with what it is. And I’m messaging at this time where I think that form forces people the same way it does in my business, where we’re like, Okay, do you have a budget? Do you just want a conversation? Are you interested in something related to Amber’s books or, you know, any of those things that it makes a big difference. It makes a difference for me and for the client. Yeah, yeah.

Danielle Finney  12:59

And I’m gonna go back just a bit, maybe a lot of it. So when we first kind of started talking about this topic, you were asking about, I guess, like how clients or not clients, but if you’re looking to take pictures, what are some of the things that can be helpful? So we talked about the session goals. We talked about wardrobe, like making sure you try stuff on in advance. One of the other things too, that I super, super recommend, like, you need to make sure you’re shooting with a photographer that you will be comfortable with, yeah, and that can’t be overstated. And so here’s the thing, because we are in the age of social media, like, a lot of times, people will, you know, share more about their like personalities, or, you know, maybe reviews, or just things like that, so you could, or should, I should say, get a feel for what someone’s personality might be. Yeah, and that can help kind of guide the decision. Of course, you don’t know for sure until you you know, work with them, right? But if it’s not somebody that you know, or No, I can’t let me let me restate that, if it’s not somebody that you feel confident, that you will be comfortable with and trust them, like that is a really important part of the dynamic, because you can’t be you can’t allow yourself to relax. Can’t relax if you’re not comfortable and confident that person knows what they’re doing, right,

Amber Cabral  14:21

right, or even just that they are comfortable for you, like you were the first woman photographer I shot with. And I Yes, you were the first woman for I literally have only taken photos with men otherwise, and I feel like you. You see and think about things respectfully, gentlemen, that I don’t feel like male photographers catch absolutely and so there were elements of that that to me were so obvious in your photos, like just even motions, that for me it’s almost like you capture the in between things, the things that people remember me for, that I have no idea are even happening. But. People who know me would describe me by those things, like, it’s a very interesting thing and so but I also feel like that comes down to again, like the intentionality of saying, Am I comfortable with this photographer? Because I’m going to show you all the in between things. You’re gonna catch me laughing randomly, or, you know, whatever my little typical hand gestures and all that, all that’s gonna come out. But if I’m not comfortable, it

Danielle Finney  15:22

won’t you’ll be more reserved and yeah, like you need to be comfortable so we can get those that genuine, those warm expressions, those things that you don’t allow yourself to do with someone that you’re not comfortable

Amber Cabral  15:35

with. Yeah, absolutely I love, super important. Okay, great. So I’m gonna talk a little bit about skin tone and color, because color is your thing, like you have you, first of all, you’re a natural light photographer, so I do want you to talk a little about that, and then I want you to talk about your use of color, and I’m gonna ask some probing questions around that, just because I think it’s one of the things that makes your work so unique. But I’d love to just kind of get a sense of, like, how, how? How do you do it? How do you do it? Because, literally, we have pictures regularly where we’re like, why are the people so ashen? Why are the clothes so dull? What is happening with the background, like, there’s and it doesn’t seem to be just a style esthetic. It seems to be something missing. I would love to just get your insight on, like, your use of color, your process, what, what you’re willing to share, obviously, and why that’s important. I hope you’re enjoying today’s episode, and if you happen to also be looking for tools to help you navigate tough conversations, to be able to show up as a more impactful ally, or just to have resources about how to navigate equity in your world. I’ve written two books. My first book is called allies and advocates, and this book is really focused on helping you show up as a more impactful ally. It has actual tactics and tips and things that you can practice to help you get there, both for yourself and for others. My second book is called say more about that. Now. Say more about that is more about helping you to speak up, to push back, to challenge, to be able to have those conversations that sometimes get a little bit difficult, and in fact, I’ve given you actual scripts to help you to be able to do that. So if you’re interested in just having a few extra resources in your pocket to be able to help you to navigate any of those things, you can go pick up those books anywhere where you buy books, or you can pop down into the show notes and click the links and buy them there. Back to the episode.

Danielle Finney  17:18

I was Thank you. I appreciate that. I will say there’s, there’s so much that I can say about this, but one thing that I think I’ll say is missing, and why we see images that look the way that they do in the wild, it’s a lack of care. Oh, okay. And the reason why I say that is because like you, if you cared enough, yeah, um, like you, you can see a picture or someone in front of you, and then, you know, see someone in front of you, and then you see a picture of them. You see a clear distinction, yes, and it’s like, Do you not care to try to make those things

Amber Cabral  18:04

look alike? I mean, it’s almost like people frame it, like it’s surgery, like it’s an impossible task, like cameras are not made to capture orange or skin tone or

Danielle Finney  18:16

and, you know, hold on, let me not even say that it’s not just a lack of care. Honestly, I do think it is a lack of skill as well. Yeah. So the reason why I say that is because if you are only used to working with lighter skin tones, ie white people, Asian, who, whatever of the you know, your skin tone on the lighter end of the spectrum, then you will get used to doing things a certain way. And so then, if you are then now needing to shoot someone on the darker end of the spectrum, that method is not transferable, yeah. And so the funny thing, not haha funny, of course, is that this is a concern that I’ve also heard of, or I’m aware of, as it pertains to makeup and hair artists as well. Like, why is it that only, yes, the artists of color, right? Need to know how to work with everybody, right? But if you’re not an artist of color, you like, oh yeah, I don’t need it. I don’t even know how to do black hair. I don’t even know how to make brown skin look good, exactly. So it’s kind of, um, in the black photographer’s case, I would say it is a benefit, if you will, because that’s kind of where we start and where our skills are honed, right? And so that skill is transferable, yeah, at least I think so. And then I think it all also is a matter of what’s, what’s the word I’m looking for taste, because some people do like images that kind of tend to look a little more blue or ashy, if you will, like lower contrast, but those images don’t look as poor on lighter skin, right? And so that style may work well on that. That end of the spectrum, right? But when you do transfer that to browner skin tones, that’s when it looks ashy, and it’s like, yeah, no, that’s not good. Yes. I think of photographers that sometimes will show, I’m not naming dropping anyone, but photographers who will do like these, you know, just these big magazine covers, yes and will be critiqued like, Well, why does this person look like this? Yes, but they are well known and renowned photographers, but that skill that they have that looks good on some skin tones doesn’t look good on on All right? So I think it’s those things that it’s definitely yes. It’s taste skill and a lack of care? Yeah,

Amber Cabral  20:42

I hate that. That’s the answer, I mean, but it’s equity matter, right? So, like, right? That’s the thing. I have not shot photos with anyone that was not a person of color, and I don’t think I’ve ever walked away disappointed with the color of my photos, my skin tone, even I haven’t been disappointed with,

Danielle Finney  21:03

Oh, hold on. I just remember Yes, because you asked about something else that I did, I jumped to one part of your your question. I didn’t answer the other one. That’s okay. About the like, I guess, like my process, or natural light photography and all of that. Yes, natural light, what I have found, and I kind of, I do feel like I ended up in natural light photography, because it’s quote unquote easier. And I say that quote unquote because I know it. Other people who know student photography will be like, what he just set the light, yeah. But for me, studio photography gives me anxiety, like even these lights, I’m like, man, what’s the science behind this. This is cool, right? It’s like a foreign world to me, yes, and I do want to learn it, but, um, it doesn’t light me up, right? And so I like natural light because it’s, what’s the word I want to use, like, natural light is dynamic. Yes, it’s sunny, it’s cloudy, it’s overcast, it’s part of the cloudy it’s partly like all in all those things. And not just the the actual light that’s coming from the sun, but how it reflects off of certain buildings, or these just, it’s, I love it.

Amber Cabral  22:12

You have a light thing, which is why it’s so interesting that you don’t, yeah, that you don’t, like, use lights. You’re like, not that kind of that’s not the way I want to do it. You just call my attention to every time I shoot with you, this happens. We’re like, outside. We usually end up doing something outside at some point. And you’re always like, ooh, step two paces to the right, or do and I’m like, What are you looking at? Like? Because I just see very often. I’m like, I see shadows. Like, how is this the right place? But you have this really magical like, that’s it. Do that. That’s it, but not in a do that. Like, what did I do again, kind of way, but, like, almost, like a Okay, a moment ago, you were doing this, and you were talking about, can you just talk about that again? And you are just behind the camera doing the amazing thing. It’s incredible, but it is very clearly a light thing, because you make it crystal clear, like, Oh no, the lighting and it’s so interesting that for you, that doesn’t translate to business. No,

Danielle Finney  23:12

you know, let me tell you why. Because with studio lights, you need to move the lights, like around the person to get the look that you want, okay? Versus with what I do, I move the person to accommodate the light, okay? And for me, that feels easier because I literally, I can see it. I’m like, okay, cool. This works well, turns slightly not so well, right? But I that works best for me, and it feels a little bit, quote, unquote, easier. So, so, yeah. So I’m able to see the glow, if you will, yeah. And even if it’s not all the way there when I capture in camera, because I know what I want the final picture to look like. I know exactly what I need to do when I go edit. Got it. So I’m like, oh, let’s just bring that up a little bit more. Tone that down a little bit like it’s, I love editing. That’s another fun part of it for me. So

Amber Cabral  24:03

I think loving editing is great and important. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve taken photos of people and it took weeks to get the work back. I have also had the experience of, like, you know, you’re really good for like, you’ll capture something, and you’ll be like, Oh, gushing. And you’ll call me over, like, look at this, you know? And I’m like, wow. And to me, the photo looks great. It’s it. I’m like, how did you catch that? It’s amazing already, but you’re like, still gonna come behind, still touches. Don’t make adjustments. You send me like my proofs, and I usually can’t tell what you’ve done to my finals. I cannot tell the difference. You are not a Nip Tuck photographer. So you’re not you’ll do a slight, a little bit into a slight but nothing that feels like you’ll, you’ll. You know, we all hate when you’re sitting and you had a random little cart, right? You’ll push that, but like no one’s gonna notice that, unless it’s there right on

Danielle Finney  24:51

any body magic, no, I’ll just just a little

Amber Cabral  24:54

exactly so to me, to my untrained Yes, I’m walking around in my body, but I don’t see myself. I. Right? I It doesn’t look different than what you showed me when we were live. Like, I can’t see the flaws in either one. And then also, I can also imagine, you know, on the other side of this for people who are, you know, thinking about when people, when people are really thinking about their photos being taken, one of the things that I feel like you do really well, that I feel like also plays into this light. Thing is, you are really thinking about even what to your point about the wardrobe and all that, all these are connected. What color are you wearing? Let me think about where we’re going to be, and that shows up when we get there. Yeah, so you’re talking to me, and it’s like, okay, I walked past this. I thought it would look really great. I knew you were gonna have on that yellow now we have this experience, and I’m like this, so you there is, yes, it’s curated. It’s curated. Yeah, that’s it. It’s curated. So that leads me to another question, and feel free to chime in, hop around, whatever. We have lots of things. I’m having all the mental births right now. So there’s that. But specifically I want to talk about the fact that you shoot a lot of black women, and it feels like you were a for like, at the forefront of that, like there were, at least not in my search, a lot of photographers who were focused on black women and presenting us in our work. Like, I can remember you did a series on makers, and like, you’ve been very intentional about showing women, black women, in their element, the ways that they look great, you know, the things that they’re winning at. And you’re even thoughtful about, as we are clients with you, you’re even thoughtful about, like, how do you need photography work now? Right? Like you’ve hit me up at different times and been like, Hey, I know this was a tough year for you, but let’s still capture right, like you’re very thoughtful in that way. I would love to hear you just talk about how important it’s been for you to work with black women like you know, did you intentionally prioritize that? And why? Why has it mattered, and how’s that impacted your business?

Danielle Finney  26:55

So, as a black woman, right? As a black woman, that’s

Amber Cabral  26:59

a great Yes, yes.

Danielle Finney  27:01

I not only that, but being like, born and raised in PG County, yeah, I’ve always been surrounded by black people, right? Black women, black men, just black people, yep. So that was not a stretch for me initially, because that tool was around me, yeah. And so I was like, okay, cool. And it just fit. I will say that this, I don’t think you asked this, but it’s a thought that comes to mind, like when my business was new. One of the things somebody said to me, a friend of mine, maybe like an auntie figure, just, you know, she’s older than me, right? She was showing one of her coworkers my website, and the coworker was a white woman, and the woman said, Oh, but she only works with black people. And so she told me this, and I felt so like it wasn’t even a thought that I had at the time. I felt like, who else thinks this way? Like I don’t want to, I don’t want anybody to feel excluded, right?

Amber Cabral  28:04

So right, which is not often considered on the other side, speaking of equity, but yes, exactly yes. Hey, there. I hope you’re enjoying the episode, and, in fact, if you are, you can bring me to your organization or event to help you bring conversations like this to life in your workspaces. This is something I do for a living. I do coaching, I do training, I do executive consulting, whatever it is that you might need as it relates to trying to figure out how to activate allyship or equity in your space. It’s probably something I can support. So if you’re interested in how we can work together, you can reach out to me@cabraraco.com or pop down into the show notes and click the link book a discovery call, and we will chat with you soon back to the show.

Danielle Finney  28:47

So because I felt that way, I kind of started, I don’t know how to word this, but I went on an intentional like I needed to have faces other than them brown and black faces on my website, right? So I was looking around like, well, what other ethnicities do I know? Because it was really just

Amber Cabral  29:08

PG County, exactly, right, exactly. So I

Danielle Finney  29:10

went, like, I was on Instagram, and, um, I think at the time that I don’t even know if this site still exists, but Model Mayhem, where I would, like, reach out and, you know, try to find models of different ethnicities so I could, like, shoot them and show the range, because I get it. If that’s your concern, like, oh, well, maybe this person won’t be able to photograph me. Well, exactly. So if that’s the legitimate concern, right, I wanted to put those concerns to rest. Yeah, um, all right. So after I did that, I realized, well, I didn’t really like the reasoning for that, or like what, what spawned that decision. Yes, I wanted it to kind of happen, I guess, like in a more organic way, right? So over the years, um, this is not like a current this is more like, I don’t know, some years after that conversation happened, I. Um, I’ve realized, well, well, what’s wrong with being a black photographer,

Amber Cabral  30:03

right? I

Danielle Finney  30:04

had that kind of thought epiphany on like, Well, who else is shooting us in the way that I’m shooting? Right? I mean, you know, yes, there are other photographers who are doing their thing with black women, black families, but all of that. But I said, but I am doing my thing, yeah? So I leaned into that. And then especially, it especially felt good when black women would reach out to me and say that they wanted to work with me because of how good, yeah, I made them look Yes, and I loved that. And so yeah, so I leaned into that. So I’m like, Yeah, I want to. And I think I don’t even know where this came from, but I love that. It came some years ago. The thought came to me, and I was like, see yourself in beautiful light, yes. And I’ve freaking loved that, right? Because, yes, like, as we talked about before, light is my thing. And yeah, like, I want to showcase you in your best light, right? I don’t want you to be worried about I have a pimple, or I feel like I gained a few pounds, or my hair is not laying right, or I’m gonna take care of all of that, right? Don’t worry about not. That doesn’t mean it comes

Amber Cabral  31:15

to me. Don’t come with your makeup, not in order. Don’t arrive with, you know, the you know, the edge is not laid at all. Like, try.

Danielle Finney  31:22

I’m gonna fix you up, yes, but I’m not gonna do all the way Exactly. That’s gonna, that’s gonna take way too long, but, but, yeah, I love being able to do that for people like it super lights me up. And the fact that one of the, one of the things also, too, that I really kind of leaned into over the years, like, as I’ve gotten older, you know, your body changes and all those things. So I’ve been a string bean for most of my life, yes, and then so some of the things that I didn’t really think about as it pertains to womenly weight, I now know and can see in, like, let me tell you, when I’m editing photos, yeah, I am so thoughtful and considerate. Yes, because I don’t want this little piece of fat that’s, that’s, that’s coming out here to be the reason why you don’t like that photo. You look beautiful Exactly. I’m gonna just, I’m just bringing in

Amber Cabral  32:11

real life. No one sees it. That’s the thing. Really, no one cares. Yes. So

Danielle Finney  32:16

what I like to do is try to have you see yourself through the lens that everybody else, yes, they’re seeing the light within. They’re seeing how much you light up, how much joy you bring to them, to the world all that, right, let’s, let’s let that shine. Yes, in your photos. Yes, you’re not your little Yeah, imperfection, right? Yes, you

Amber Cabral  32:34

are so great at that. Like, I always tell people I’m like, these are not super edited photos. Like, when I’m like, these are the unedited ones. These are the ones where she was just like, Yeah, real quick cleanup. I got these hours after the, you know, the shoot, like, you know, and so it’s, yeah, I love that about about your work. I also think that, you know, kind of to your point, like, it’s an equity matter, like, you know, there’s just not a lot of access for women of color, as we’ve seen, you know, black and brown women on covers being presented in ways that we’re like, Well, how did this happen? Why is this? This is not what this I’ve never seen this person, but I know that’s not what they look like. And so I think that what you offer, and what’s, you know, a bit of a relief is that, like, I know that my pictures are in good hands. I know that this experience is going to be thoughtful. And then once people start to work with you, they realize like, Oh, she’s taking care of every detail. Like she wants to see my outfits. She wants to know, you know, because I can’t even remember saying, Hey, I don’t know what I’m wearing. I’m gonna send you a few pictures, and you’ll go, I like this. I like this. We’ve done enough yellow we have, you know, help you so that we can write. We can start to get to a help

Danielle Finney  33:40

you to think about the things that you may not think about, because I’m looking at it from different eyes Exactly. How is this gonna work? If you sit Yeah, or like, will this move? Well, yes, things like that a lot of people don’t typically think about. When it comes to pictures, you also

Amber Cabral  33:55

capture a lot of like, laughs and like, and I’m just here for us being seen as joyful beings, right? Like, I want, that I want. I think there’s a lot of stereotypes and tropes attached to black women, particularly, you know, successful, smart, hardworking black women. The idea that, like, your intentionality around just capturing our joy isn’t like everywhere, like, that’s it’s like, yes, I want that, you know. So it’s one of my favorite things, absolutely. So I’m gonna pivot just a little bit specifically, because we just talked about joy. And I know that you know you have been very open online about your mental health struggles, and I know that sometimes it is not a joy, even though you do a fantastic job pulling that out of other people, there are times where you just don’t have it like for you, and it ultimately can show up in ways where you have to step away or take a break, and you’ve been very, very candid about it, and I think it’s necessary, and we value it, but I would love to just kind of hear what made you make that decision, just because I think that people have a lot of stigma. US assumptions, adding that you’re a black woman, that is a whole other layer right about mental health. So what? What made you decide this is something I would like to talk about. So

Danielle Finney  35:12

I will say, even though I don’t share as much these days, way back when I did start sharing, I feel like this was, I don’t know, like 2015 2016 around then it was another black woman or other black women, another black woman or other black women that I was seeing that kind of inspired me to share as well. And like I was just feel so compelled seeing their stories and feeling like, oh, okay, well, I’m dealing with this too. It’s not fun, yeah, but in a in speaking to their community, and so it’s like, okay, well, I can let me talk to my community. So that’s kind of like how things started. Yeah, over the years, it has definitely been helpful, because it helps to kind of give a what’s the word, like, I don’t have, I don’t have everything together, yeah?

Amber Cabral  36:15

And I know nobody expect the perfection.

Danielle Finney  36:18

And I know nobody does, yeah, but a lot of times people have that facade, and they kind of feel like stuck, because no one knows if you will like what it is I’m dealing with, and you feel like you can’t really talk to people about it. But it helped to be open. And so even now that I don’t share as much, my relationship with social media is touch and go yes, but the audience who has been there knows that, right? Like, oh, okay, cool. She’ll come, she’ll resurface when she Yes exactly, and I’ll share whenever I do share, but, but, yeah, it’s been really helpful to it connects me to others. It has connected me to others. Yeah? Just Just knowing that you’re not dealing with your your your things alone. Yeah, absolutely. We

Amber Cabral  37:09

talked about this a little bit off camera, and I just want to put it into the conversation, because I think it’s so important. One of the things I really appreciate about you sharing when you are and you may not do it like ahead of it. You may pop in in the middle of and be like, hey, no, I’ve been back gone a while. I’ll be back. Not now, though, right, right. And so I appreciate that, and I also love that you still you do two really important things. One, I think you’re a small business owner, and you’re establishing effective boundaries, boundaries with your clients boundaries with what people should be expecting of you out in the world that have not yet become clients. And so it’s automatically, you’re just being very transparent about like, Hey, I’m gonna handle this at the pace that works the best for me, which I think is rarely seen in entrepreneurial women. The other thing about that way, but that’s it. That’s what it is. It’s boundaries. Like, I know, I know there are gonna be times I’ll shoot you a text and you’ll be, like, a week later, yeah, right. But then there gonna be times I’ll shoot you a text and you’re on it. If it’s a day we have a shoot, you’re on it, oh, yeah. Like, immediately, right? And so, like, what I also love is just that point too, that I think sometimes people can frame mental health as though that means that, like, you aren’t still responsible with deadlines, you aren’t still thoughtful about folks’ experience. You aren’t willing to be considerate. And I’m like, that’s kind of a disservice to folks who are navigating mental health challenges, because it doesn’t mean that, like, you can’t do anything

Danielle Finney  38:32

Correct, yeah, like one of the it’s funny that you mentioned that, because I often feel like even when I’m down, like the only thing that they’re still running is that business, like, I’m keeping those deadlines. I modify them if I need to, but I’m letting people know, like, I’m never going radio silent. Um, because communication is so important to me, is and you will you will know that as a client like you may get irritated with the amount of emails that come your way, because I like to I’m high touch. Yes, I want to be the one who reminds you of your responsibilities, so that our work together is beneficial, right? And then when the tables turn, when it’s my responsibility to edit your photos, if I’m taking you a little longer than planned, I’m gonna let you know that, yeah, and give you the new, you know, update for, for when to deal or not, when to deal, so when to expect, um, but yeah, like, it’d be some days where I’m just, I can’t, not that I can’t get out of bed, because, yeah, you get out of bed, you do do what you need to do, but that I’m just, I’m not getting in front of that computer, right? I’m not going in my office, right? No, thank you, right. I can’t deal with that, but I got photos to do, so All right, let me see what this what this deadline is, and let them know. Yeah, um, so, yeah, communication is super duper important, and I think even more so now I can, I can’t say that. It’s just important. I was going to say even more so when you are dealing with mental health issues. But. But maybe I will say that yeah, because you have to let people know, like when you’re not all there, yeah. And so one of the things that I’ve learned, like just in my getting older, is that, like, you have to know your boundaries you do, and your limitations and be modest, like when you think about, okay, well, on a good day, you can do X, Y and Z, but it’s not a good day, right? So you can just do X, right? So it’s like, those are, those are things that I have to learn from running myself into the ground, yeah? And realizing, oh yeah, I don’t do that. No more, right? So I’m not right. So right, yeah,

Amber Cabral  40:38

I love that. I think, I think it’s super important that folks are open about mental health struggles. I have not been as open as I could be about some of my own. So I’m always paying attention to people who are, you know, very candid. And I do think it’s it comes back to that, like, I don’t want to feel unprofessional to people, you know, so but

40:56

she helps people appreciate that.

Amber Cabral  40:58

It’s literally just about to say that, like, listen, I listen. You personally, like you personally, sharing. I have appreciated, you know what I mean, like it. And to your point, it does. It sets my expectation. So I’m like, Okay, I’m probably not gonna get an immediate response for this, but I know I’m gonna get a response. And so, yeah, it’s, it’s incredible. And again, I can’t say enough about the fact that even regardless of whatever mental health we are navigating, we are also in a situation where we can still be responsible with what is due, yeah, and that isn’t always as communicated. And I think that that’s a shame, because we don’t want to make it seem like folks who are navigating mental health issues can’t do anything. Yeah, that’s it’s not fair, correct? Yeah, exactly. Okay, so there is a question that I always ask every guest at the end, so I’m gonna ask you, but I’m gonna give you a little prefacing first. Okay, so the show is called guilty privilege. The reason for that is because people tend to think of privilege as a thing to feel ashamed about or embarrassed by or defensive over, and in reality, our privilege really opens a lot of doors for us, and so what I would, you know, like to do is kind of just shift that so people can see the value in privilege, instead of it feeling like a reason to feel bad. Yeah. So that leads me to my question, which is, what is one privilege that you have that you refuse to feel guilty about?

Danielle Finney  42:17

So let me tell you that I knew this question was coming, and I completely forgot to think about it.

Amber Cabral  42:22

That’s okay. That means the answer will be real.

Danielle Finney  42:26

Oh, like I knew I wanted to add something bomb. That’s

Amber Cabral  42:30

what happens when you try to plan. Okay, you’re a planner. This is not a planning moment. Let’s hear it. Okay, a

Danielle Finney  42:37

privilege that I will not feel guilty about, honestly, because we are talking about my work, I do not feel guilty about the way that I see things, and I say that because, like my creative eye is the Reason for things being the way that they are, and that’s a privilege, yes,

Amber Cabral  43:07

in your case, especially because you’re looking through a camera. You know what I mean? You know, often I see pictures of myself and I’m like, What? What are you looking at? But

Danielle Finney  43:16

that’s the thing, though, it doesn’t start in the camera, yeah? Like, I have to see it in real life first to then frame it to then like, yeah,

Amber Cabral  43:25

so it’s, it’s all here, yes, yes. That’s a privilege. That’s it. So I, yeah, I’m

Danielle Finney  43:30

grateful for it. Yeah,

Amber Cabral  43:31

amazing. Thank you so much for talking to me today. This was great. I know I owe you photos, like, we’re at the place now where I owe you photos. What I mean by that is that she knows it’s time for me to take pictures. So, yeah, absolutely All right. Well, thanks for joining me. Danny,

Danielle Finney  43:47

thanks for having me.

Amber Cabral  43:48

It was fun. It was it was you.