SUMMARY KEYWORDS

healing, people, reiki, life, feel, practices, white supremacy, culture, world, sleep, experience, kids, meditation, space, work, modalities, thought, privilege, trustworthy, energy

SPEAKERS

Amber Cabral, Jona Genova

Amber Cabral 00:00

Three. Privilege is all around you. It shows up in your clothes, where you live, the places you frequent, your network capital, and even how you spend your money. It’s useless until you recognize it. So it’s time to stop feeling guilty and figure out how to use your privilege to make an impact. Welcome to guilty privilege. Welcome back to guilty privilege. My name is Amber Cabral, and today I have the privilege of talking to Jonna Genova performance coach and my personal Reiki Instructor. Today we’re going to talk about how you can get more healing into your life, and why you should do so to create more equity in your life experience. Okay, Jonna, I’m so glad that you’re here. You are literally one of the most like anchors in my life at this moment, because of the work that we do together. So I really appreciate you joining me on the podcast.

Jona Genova 01:00

You know, I’m happy to be here.

Amber Cabral 01:01

Yeah, so let’s, let’s jump into our conversation. I want to first talk about what you do. So what you do? For me, we have Reiki sessions together, but you are in the healing space. So generally speaking, people who are in the healing space can sometimes encounter a little bit of but what do you do? You know, like, what is that? So can you tell us what it is exactly that you do?

Jona Genova 01:27

It’s difficult to define in a couple of words, yeah, this is probably true for many healers, because a part of the healing work that we’re doing with you is built upon the healing work that we’ve done ourselves and the unique journeys that each person has had. Yeah. So some of the modalities that I use are Reiki, Tibetan meditations, and how that shows up in our sessions is through my presence, which has been cultivated through years and years of meditation and study. And then there’s also the like, anti oppressive work that I’ve done that I think is a healing mechanism that’s in play during our sessions as well, that not everyone would name, yeah,

Amber Cabral 02:12

yeah, definitely. So I think that the healing space has been branded to almost feel like it is exclusively for white people. I think when people think of any of the things that connect to this, meditation, yoga, Reiki, typically, what people are going to imagine is someone white. What is it that you are doing to open access to create more equity in the healing space? And why is that important as well

Jona Genova 02:41

where to begin, because it’s difficult for me to even talk about what I’m doing without addressing the problem. Yeah. And the problem is that those the archetype of like the wafy White, flowing hair healer, waving palo santo or white sage with a sort of washed out Instagram esthetic, right? Yes, crystals, all of it, maybe they’ve got a singing bowl or several, right? All of that is cultural appropriation. It is, and it’s been wrapped up now that esthetic has evolved, and to me, what that looks like is white supremacy culture in action that hasn’t been checked, and the practitioner probably hasn’t done any work to even be aware of what white supremacy culture is. So it’s really alive in the visual, but then also in the healing work that they’re doing, yes, and then it is perpetuating, because white supremacy is designed to thrive. It is so it is like taking ownership of these modalities that have Deep Origins. For example, Tibetan meditation practices date back 2500 years. 25 Yeah, and there are 1000s of people that have done these practices before me, and when someone had drops all of that culture, or what parts of that culture do not seem appealing to them, or they don’t usually it’s because they don’t understand, so they don’t find it as beautiful as they would if they understood it. They leave all of that behind and they take the parts that they they do understand or they find appealing, and now that has become what healing is, right? So the consumer thinks that that’s what healing is about, but really it’s this mutated version of healing, absolutely. So the there’s so many problems with that, obviously, right? We have a diluted, mutated version of healing that’s corrupted by the own practitioners, embodiment of white supremacy that isn’t being checked. We also have the person who’s coming to them for healing, who now is participating in white supremacy culture without even realizing that they’re doing it exactly, and most of the problems that the person is experiencing that brought. Brought them to the healing space in the first place are probably rooted in white supremacy culture. That’s right. So what are we even doing? Exactly right, right? So what am I doing about that? Yes, what are you doing about that? Calling it out number one, yes. And this was never my plan. I didn’t see this path laid out in front of me. What happened for me is that I grew up in a rural community, so I would go on long walks and find arrowheads, remnants from the Native Americans who lived on that land before my family was there. I enjoyed spending time with trees in nature, feeling things. I also played the cello growing up, which is an instrument that rests against the body, right? And then later, when I learned about chakras having

Amber Cabral 05:45

all the vibration,

Jona Genova 05:47

I thought, Oh, my goodness, the cello was tuning me to vibration, to understand vibration, from such a young age, right? Like, of all the instruments that you could have selected, yeah. Like, none of this was planned making, like potions out of flower petals that I would find, and grasses that I would find, and rocks, all the things that I really enjoyed as a kid involved feeling into and knowing the textures that exist in the world and really Loving the various textures and all the variety, yeah. And then, when I got into college, one of my favorite professors happened to be a Tibetan Lama, but I didn’t know it at the time, and he taught a comparative religion class. Oh, wow. And so I was a Catholic school, and it was a class about Tibetan Buddhism and Catholicism. And I really thought that the perspective of Tibetan Buddhists on health was fascinating because it was so contradictory to what I was had been introduced to as a pre med student at the same university, yeah, and simultaneously I was taking classes about like ethics and healthcare and end of life decisions. And it occurred to me that the Tibetans have such a different view about life and wellness that perhaps our healthcare system would benefit from recognizing that we had a cultural bias baked into the idea of what health is and the way that we allocate resources. And at the time, I didn’t know it, but this was a perfect introduction to how bias can show up, and how fortunate was I to be introduced to a culture that was largely intact because of their geographic isolation, right? Yeah, so they hadn’t experienced, there hadn’t yet been the appropriation that we see today, right? Meditation and Tibetan culture, right? Okay, so because of that, because I grew this like affection for the culture, for the philosophy, for the religion, and also because my professor was so deeply embedded, he was one of the first white people to travel to Asia. I’m not sure why, but he was able to pick up the language very quickly. It’s probably connected to his connection to the lineage, at least that’s how I see it to his karma. And so he learned directly from Tibetans, and has since introduced me to these people as my teachers, the ones who are still alive. So whenever I’m getting around to like, the point, whenever I have a chance to talk about healing, I reference those important people. These are human beings, right, right, who have held, held these practices and these teachings for so long with such care, and it’s the only reason that I can do what I do today is because of their care and their work and their labor, right? So naming it, what it is, whenever I talk about it, is a way that I keep it alive and stay true to it, and that requires great effort on my part, because when I’m invited into spaces to talk about what I do or to share what I do, more often than not, I’m told, don’t mention that. Don’t talk about Tibetan Buddhism. It’s too confusing. Well, can’t you just make it more like, can’t you call it mindfulness? In one meditation studio where I was hired to teach, I wasn’t allowed to use the word Buddhist or Buddha, and I thought, how could I possibly share what I’m doing? Wow, yeah, that’s interesting. So that’s the cultural appropriation in action. So it requires standing up against it, to call it out and to have the guts to be willing to not get a job, to stand in my values.

Amber Cabral 09:31

You also, though, are like creating opportunities to connect with people outside of people you are immediately having access to like you and I met because we were on a plane together, like, literally, and before I got off, you were like, so listen, there’s something about you. I feel like we should talk. And so we did, yeah, and so I also feel like part of the way that you are creating access is that you’re intentional about leaning in in the spaces where you feel. Feel called to do so, you know, instead of, I think a lot of times people may feel that way, but they don’t always lean in, or they don’t, or they may feel like it’s weird because, like, we were, like, getting off the plane. You know, people are headed places. Sometimes people won’t do that. But I think in addition to being deliberate about celebrating and highlighting where these practices come from, you’ve also been very intentional about honoring your own energy when you encounter an opportunity to lean in. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes, I am Yes. So I also want to talk a little bit about what why do you think it is important to get tools like the healing modalities that you practice into the hands of people who don’t traditionally have access to them, because you work with a lot of non traditional, I would say, you know, thinking about those stereotypical communities that would have access to this, you work with folks that are not necessarily a part of those communities. Can you describe why it’s important for those folks to also have access to what you do? I hope you’re enjoying today’s episode, and if you happen to also be looking for tools to help you navigate tough conversations, to be able to show up as a more impactful ally, or just to have resources about how to navigate equity in your world. I’ve written two books. My first book is called allies and advocates, and this book is really focused on helping you show up as a more impactful ally. It has actual tactics and tips and things that you can practice to help you get there, both for yourself and for others. My second book is called say more about that. Now. Say more about that is more about helping you to speak up, to push back, to challenge, to be able to have those conversations that sometimes get a little bit difficult. And in fact, I’ve given you actual scripts to help you to be able to do that. So if you’re interested in just having a few extra resources in your pocket to be able to help you to navigate any of those things, you can go pick up those books anywhere where you buy books, or you can pop down into the show notes and click the links and buy them there. Back to the episode.

Jona Genova 11:55

Well, everyone should have access to healing, in my view, right? And I want to know what the world would be like if all people could fully express who they are. And that’s deeply rooted in Tibetan Buddhism as well, the idea that all of us has an essence that is obscured by our life experiences, so covered up and then it changes how we are showing up in the world. And in my experience working in healing spaces, including treatment facilities, my own experience with trauma, my own experience with life,

Amber Cabral 12:36

give me say more about the treatment facilities.

Jona Genova 12:39

So in 2015 I was invited to work with a residential treatment facility for adolescents with CO occurring disorders, which means they had at least two diagnoses. In other words, these kids had a lot going on, yeah, complex histories. And this was a unique facility in that their approach was love to love the kids, to put them in a beautiful place that could inspire healing, where they felt valued, they felt important. And someone had the idea to bring me in to do energy healing with them. No one, including myself, knew what would happen and what happened there was, I think, how I’m ending up in various spaces or leaning in, is me just being myself and being different. And there’s something about being, like, even being ethnically ambiguous, yeah, right, where I don’t really fit in anywhere, but I kind of maybe can get in places. Yes,

Amber Cabral 13:36

when I met you, I just assumed you were, you know, regular, run intimate, white girl like, to be honest, so yeah, I agree, yeah,

Jona Genova 13:42

and it changes depending on like, time of year, yeah, what my skin tone is like, wearing my hair, right? So that’s another part of like, wow. I’m not. I could not have planned this, but my life has positioned me to have access, to have access and to learn how to be embodied and be different than everyone else around me. So when I went into the Healing Center, the treatment center, I was different. I wasn’t trained to diagnose these kids. They could tell I was just a highly sensitive person showing up who had experienced trauma, significant traumas about the same age as them and I was doing something different, like the modality I was doing was different too, so they could connect to me because of the shared feeling different, and then also all of these practices and my choices in life, have changed my constitution so that people feel, often feel a kind of safety with me. Yeah? And that can’t be faked. It’s fill your energy. We

Amber Cabral 14:52

can tell Yeah, absolutely. So you recent, recently shared with me that I am the only woman. Okay, and the only non athlete that you have as a client, right? And so I’m curious, which, by the way, that blew my mind to know that. But I’m curious about, you know, who are you working with? You know, with to the degree confidentiality being what it is, but also why that community needs what you do and how they benefit from what you do, and then the differences or similarities with working with me. Okay, yeah.

Jona Genova 15:32

So I can feel in your questions. You can feel me dancing around, yeah, the questions that you’re ants asking yes and a little reason Yes, why I am so I’ll explain that right now, there’s a part of me that is so careful about the functioning of white supremacy as a force. Yes, what I do for work right now is really sexy, and a lot of people might hear what I do and then want to jump to doing that and working with these populations, right? And so that’s why I’ve been dancing, yes, dancing, dancing, because I don’t want people to take that approach. That approach is based in ego, and it’s not helping anyone, the practitioner or the those that they’re saying that they’re serving. So I currently work with NFL players and coaches. I do some work with various teams as a performance coach, yes, but my way of doing the work is rooted in everything we’ve been talking about so far, right? And which,

Amber Cabral 16:33

by the way, that is a space that could benefit Yes, quite a bit,

Jona Genova 16:37

yes. So just like the kids who are in treatment for various complex histories. My set and my intuitive nature brought me to this. I think the way I experience the world is so much more than the words that are spoken. It’s so much more than what I see. I experience the world in textures, tones, vibrations, I guess, like the cello, yeah, way exactly is how I’m feeling everything and because, and also because of, like, the way I show up in the world, my physical appearance, I’m aware, in a in unique ways, of how the unspoken is impacting us. So this is, like, so complex. I call it the pre verbal everything that happens without words before we had words, and the stuff we can’t speak about because it’s too painful. So that could include our our ancestors, they say, going back seven generations. According to epigenetics, we are embodying all of their experiences. Carry it genetically, for sure, and it’s shaping our perceptions of the world Absolutely. So there’s all of that. And there’s the stuff before we had language, right, when we’re in the womb, when we were little kids. There’s the stuff we don’t have words for yet, right? No one’s given us a label to understand it and contextualize it yet.

Amber Cabral 17:52

And then there’s the world today. So there’s also that That’s right, right? All

Jona Genova 17:56

of these things and most of the healing modalities that are out there again, because of our the dominant culture, are happen through talking or looking at something through a microscope, correct, or some other device, right, right? And if we can’t talk about it and we can’t see it, then it must not be true. It’s not it’s not real. It’s not happening, right? And in my experience, all of the pre verbal is very important, and if we don’t address the pre verbal, then there won’t be healing. So I seek to help anyone, or to sort of like bring awareness that the pre verbal is real. It does impact us. And then with professional athletes and with yourself and with the kids that are in treatment, the com one common denominator, denominator is that you’re all highly sensitive, high achievers. Yeah,

Amber Cabral 18:49

that is the thing you always say to me is, Oh, you’re very sensitive, you’re very high achieving. This is the way that shows up, right? Because it’s like a ripple that you put into the world, right? So I definitely feel like that that resonates for me from that standpoint, yes, yeah.

Jona Genova 19:04

And people who are highly sensitive, I’m by sensitivity, I mean awareness. They’re open, they’re more over aware of what’s going on, yeah, than other people. And so they have an internal GPS that’s guiding them someplace that no one else could see, because it’s based on their sensitivities, right? And like I said in the beginning, I want to know what the world would be like if all of those people could follow that into that, yes, yeah, yes, yes. And so I want to help the people who have that to retain that. So

Amber Cabral 19:35

the commonality is high achieving, highly sensitive,

Jona Genova 19:39

yeah, yeah. And often these days, they come in like black and brown bodies, absolutely,

Amber Cabral 19:46

usually, absolutely. It’s probably just because we’re getting the opportunity to express in some ways that we maybe could not express historically

Jona Genova 19:53

that. But I think they’re drawn to me and my healing, because the other forms of therapy don’t work. Yeah, agree. Weren’t built for them, agreed? And this is more built for people like

Amber Cabral 20:04

us, a lot of pre provocative stuff, absolutely. So I want to talk a little bit about what Reiki actually is, and what are some of the observations you’ve made since you and I have been working together.

Jona Genova 20:19

Can I say whatever I want to say, I think so, I’m just kidding. So Reiki, you know, just like white supremacy, culture, is an energy that exists in the world, Reiki is an energy that exists in the world. Yes, and anyone can be opened to channel this energy of Reiki, it’s healing, but it doesn’t represent all healing energy. There are lots of different healing modalities out there. What makes Reiki distinct is that it seems to know exactly where to go and like exactly what to do for the healing. So that means that I, as the practitioner, don’t really have to know anything about you. I don’t have to ask you questions, and you don’t have to know either, right? What needs healing, which is great. It just knows where to go. It’s gentle, which I love, especially for people who have experienced complex trauma, especially for people who are highly sensitive, yes, who could be sensing what might come next and then might be putting the brakes on. Yes, right? Reiki respects the free free will and what you’re ready to have healed. So it’s super soothing, and it goes at a pace that’s comfortable for you.

Amber Cabral 21:20

I love that, so I use it. You recorded a sleep meditation for me. I still use it. I haven’t used it as much lately, but it still works. It was one of the things that you did for me that I thought was really fantastic. I want to talk about why sleep is so important. It is one of the things I feel like you drill into me. I want to talk about why sleep is so important, and also how it’s so important, particularly for marginalized identities, to rest. Okay, yeah,

Jona Genova 21:48

everyone needs sleep. Yes, sleep is a nutrient, yes, just like food, just like water, we need sleep to operate. And again, because of dominant culture, we’re wrapped up in this, like, hard work, right? Yeah, all that. Right. So there are some studies that have been done that say that if we get less than eight hours of sleep, then we start to function like someone who’s drunk,

Amber Cabral 22:15

and I promise y’all I’m sober, right?

Jona Genova 22:19

It impairs our decision making ability our reflexes, it has real, measurable impact, impact on our functioning as humans. So for anyone who’s interested in being their best or as a high performer, the people I specialize in working with sleep is the one area of opportunity most people aren’t getting enough sleep, but if we can adjust that, then we can really help your performance. And I believe that’s especially true for people who are highly sensitive, because you need to be able to tap into that inner voice. So if you’re sleepy or you’re hungry or other needs aren’t being met, your body isn’t tuned in the way that it could be. You’re like a Ferrari that needs a tune up, yeah, that needs fuel, that needs good gas, right? So that’s for the high performer, that’s people in general, and then marginalized communities. Let’s think about the stress that they’re under every single day, and sleep is a time of rest and repair, right? So if you’re experiencing continuous stress, even if it’s like low level service all the time that is doing harm to you, emotionally, mentally to yourselves, actually, right? And sadly, marginalized communities are oftentimes folks who need to work more hours in order to pay the bills, exactly right? So you’re

Amber Cabral 23:44

getting less sleep. Yeah, hey there. I hope you’re enjoying the episode, and, in fact, if you are, you can bring me to your organization or event to help you bring conversations like this to life in your workspaces. This is something I do for a living. I do coaching, I do training, I do executive consulting, whatever it is that you might need as it relates to trying to figure out how to activate allyship or equity in your space, it’s probably something I can support. So if you’re interested in how we can work together, you can reach out to me@cabraraco.com or pop down into the show notes and click the link book a discovery call, and we will chat with you soon back to the show. So that makes me think about you, and I had this conversation in one of our sessions before, and it makes me think about the impacts in terms of when you are showing up to work and making decisions, or, you know, if you are a marginalized person, and you are in a position where you know, because of white supremacy culture, because of systematic oppression and systemic oppression, you are in a position where you have to work to do more, to get more so that you can survive, and you aren’t resting. Like, how does that show up when you are driving how does that show up when you are, you know, building relationships in your community when you are raising children? And so it makes it a lot easier to pass the trauma on instead. Of actually, folks who are able to rest and folks who are able to, you know, eat nutritious food, or folks who have access to Reiki, or folks who know how to meditate, right, that have the opportunity to do the cellular repair that you’re talking about. Yeah,

Jona Genova 25:13

it’s also an act of rebellion. And I can’t take credit for this. I would credit ministry and others who are doing this work, but Adrienne Maree brown to her work on pleasure, taking the time for sleep. Yes, it’s a basic need. And then what about like a nap? Just a pleasurable nap, right?

Amber Cabral 25:29

Just for joy, exactly, just because you

Jona Genova 25:31

want to. You just want to lay in a hammock because you can, because that’s so hard

Amber Cabral 25:35

about nice though, because I can’t get one right now. Yeah, yeah. Um, so I would love to know what are some misconceptions that people have about healing or well being that potentially are connected to inequity?

Jona Genova 25:51

I think one thing that I hear from many of my clients, so we’ll say men, black men, they don’t like to go to go to the doctor, and this is also documented because they don’t trust the doctor, because it’s expensive, and I wouldn’t even call that a misconception. That’s true, yeah, like, Yes, that’s correct. Our systems are broken, right? So what that person is experiencing is accurate. So with energy healing, I think that that mistrust, because our society says doctors are trustworthy, science is trustworthy, linear thinking is trustworthy. Anything that doesn’t fit into that, there’s already maybe suspicion around that, but it’s not legitimate. But the truth is that these modalities have existed for a very long time and have been proven to be effective for many people. So sometimes this work is even more trustworthy, even though we can’t understand it with the mind that we seek to understand it with, we may understand it with our other mind, with our body.

Amber Cabral 27:00

That makes sense. What do you wish more people knew about healing modalities like meditation or Reiki or any of the other practices that kind of fall into that category?

Jona Genova 27:12

I think they’re essential for our well being, and that the very problems that most of its face today are because we’re not doing these other practices that are receptive practices. There’s so much if we think about our day, there’s so much doing. How much time do we spend in receiving mode, even if it’s just deep, listening in nature or playing with nature in the way that I did as a little kid. We need as humans to feel connected to each other, to the land, to our food. I mean, when’s the last time you actually washed your own lettuce? Right? Right? We

Amber Cabral 27:52

just take it out the bag. It’s like washed three times, right? Right? You

Jona Genova 27:56

know. So meditation and healing are sort of packaged forms of receptive mode, right? So if you think about it, I

Amber Cabral 28:07

remember reading in a book I have about it was the title of the section was slow food. I wish I could tell you what book it was, but it was talking about how it could be meditative to intentionally prepare your meal, make your plate have a place setting. Like, just the deliberateness of that often is overlooked. So it’s interesting that you thought about, like, when’s the last time you wash your own lettuce? I’m like, not only wash your own lettuce, but like, literally took your time to plate your food, which is something I’m intentional about. I do plate my food. And, you know, I don’t eat out of plastic containers and all that stuff. But I think that sometimes we can miss the opportunity to slow down and receive and experience, like, experience your meal, instead of, like, scarf I’m in rush, you know? And that there’s value in that as well.

Jona Genova 28:58

And it’s a muscle. It is a muscle, so we can’t just decide I want to go on vacation and now I’m going to take my time and slow down. Right? It just doesn’t work that way. Our nervous system needs to have support and settling itself, and meditation and healing give us that support. They teach our body a new way of being and then doing it on a regular basis helps us so that when we are making our dinner and plating the meal, we can actually experience it, not as a deliberate action, but as receiving the beauty and the gratitude that’s available in that moment, and that’s when it becomes really enriching and feels really good.

Amber Cabral 29:36

Absolutely. How do you think so in an industry where a lot of people can be a little whimsical and pretty and soft and like not necessarily have the skill set. So there can be charlatans in this space. How do you recommend someone vet that someone knows what they’re doing?

Jona Genova 29:54

I wish I had a simple answer, like, there’s a professional organization, right? The order of my state, exactly why

Amber Cabral 30:01

I’m asking you, because there isn’t that

Jona Genova 30:03

doesn’t exist, yeah, and I think in this case, going with your instincts, especially if you are a highly sensitive person, especially if you are a person of color or another marginalized group, where you have learned to rely on your senses and your body has a lot of wisdom, right? And believing that, yes, and if, if someone feels off to you, trust it. Trust it. I would say, look for things in their bio, like they’ve done anti oppressive work, blah blah. But anyone can say that now and now it’s like a really cool thing to say, or like, trauma informed blah blah, and it’s just not really trustworthy. So one way to know if they can back that up is looking at like, how many hours of experience do they have, and how many clients have you worked with? What kind of training did you receive and with Reiki, if they did it online, I would stay away from someone who wanted to pay a small amount of money, and click through someone who even did a weekend certification, which is usually how it’s delivered. I would also stay away from that got it. I think that there should be several. So

Amber Cabral 31:09

we can ask, how did you get certified for Reiki? For Reiki, specifically,

Jona Genova 31:12

I would ask, how much time was between level one, level two and perhaps level three, if they have that level okay, and you want to see a good amount of time between each certification, yeah, because it shows that they’re committed to it, practicing, working with people, and gaining experience. And it’s not just like, Oh, I really like that person’s Instagram page, and I think this week I want to be a healer, exactly

Amber Cabral 31:37

right? I’m sure there’s a lot of that. Okay, so this show is called guilty privilege. And the reason I called it that is because I think people have a lot of guilt around the privileges that they have, and that shows up in all kinds of ways. And also there’s a lot of lack of awareness of privilege in general. And what I wanted to do was try to highlight how privilege really gives us an opportunity to make an impact. It’s a tool. So if you have it, which we all do, whatever version of it you have. The idea is that you are being impactful by using it to assist and support and aid and all of those things. What I want to ask you is, what is one privilege that you have, that you refuse to feel guilty about,

Jona Genova 32:15

one that I’m practicing, and I started too late. I wish I could someone gave me permission or told me about this when I was younger and I had more of it. Or maybe it was in a different way. Maybe more is not the right word, but really taking in and enjoying my beauty, yeah, and its various forms,

Amber Cabral 32:36

that’s a good one. I think a lot of us have been conditioned to not describe ourselves as beautiful or to shy away from compliments about particularly our appearance, but even just our skill set, like I think women are kind of at least, my experience of being a woman is like, humble, humble, humble, humble, humble. And so I think it’s really good that you are unwilling to feel guilty about that.

Jona Genova 33:01

Yeah, yeah. I want to encourage more beauty

Amber Cabral 33:03

in the world. Absolutely, absolutely. I

Jona Genova 33:06

like beautiful things.

Amber Cabral 33:07

Same me too. Yes, we do. Thank you so much for joining me on the show. Thank you. All right. You