SUMMARY KEYWORDS

experience, board, swim lane, privilege, information, share, network, talk, number, open, create, amber, absolutely, access, hobbies, folks, meaningful, conversation, building, corporate

SPEAKERS

Amber Cabral, Conrad Woody

Amber Cabral 00:00

Three. Privilege is all around you. It shows up in your clothes, where you live, the places you frequent, your network capital, and even how you spend your money. It’s useless until you recognize it. So it’s time to stop feeling guilty and figure out how to use your privilege to make an impact. Welcome to guilty privilege. Welcome back to guilty privilege. My name is Amber Cabral, and today I have the privilege of talking to Conrad Woody, who is the managing partner in the DC Office of Rogers Bernstein. And we are going to talk a bit about board seats, the privilege behind them and why you might want to point your career in that direction, as well as the importance of networking and equity as it relates to hiring in some of these top positions. Hey, my friend.

Conrad Woody 00:54

Hello.

Amber Cabral 00:54

How are you

Conrad Woody 00:55

very well.

Amber Cabral 00:56

I am so grateful to have you on this program, grateful to be here. Listen. You have some really, really good gems to share, and I know that an opportunity to share some of the messages that we’re going to talk about today is a big deal for you, so I’m excited. I’m actually excited to be able to create this opportunity for us to have this conversation. I’m glad to be here, and we’ve done this before, sort of right, like when the remember the pandemic, we had that one little virtual conversation that went pretty good, so we’re stepping it up. Yes, we are. Let’s get it right. So in your day to day, you focus on high level recruitment, top talent, high positions. That’s what your day to day day job is. Can you help us to understand some of the barriers for folks getting access to some more, you know, prestigious senior levels of leadership,

Conrad Woody 01:44

absolutely, I think the first thing that comes to my mind, Amber, is information. All information isn’t equitable. And so as it relates to the world of work and people building meaningful careers that also have upward trajectory. Sometimes a lack of information is a key component. And putting yourself in the swim lanes to get those correct information is is key. I think second thing is lack of sponsorship to go up the chain, you need other people, yeah, and building those authentic relationships so people are willing to put their equity on the line to get you up the chain, is another thing that I think is a barrier, right?

Amber Cabral 02:31

So you said something about swim lanes. Can you talk to me about how one uncovers, you know, the swim lanes? Yeah,

Conrad Woody 02:40

this is just a phrase that I use which describes the activities that you do day to day, to put yourself in a path, to get valuable information, to accelerate your life and so information around work culture, around compensation, relationship building and capital. These are things that are important and take intentional effort to get yourself in the proverbial swim lane, to have valuable information that is a net positive for your life,

Amber Cabral 03:16

right? So in addition to executive roles, we talk a lot about board seats. You and I both have an interest in boards, and you have the opportunity to have a bit more exposure to helping prepare folks for boards. Can you tell us why board seats are important, and especially important for people of color?

Conrad Woody 03:36

Yeah, I think there will be a theme of information in our conversation that you and I have discussed as friends, you know, the role of a board director or a non exec director is to be fiduciary responsible for the governance of a corporate enterprise, and so they sit in this Very powerful, influential space between corporate management, the public and the shareholders, and so ultimately, these group of people are accountable for the growth and sometimes responsible for the failure of major corporate enterprises and the quality of the experience and the things that you learn about business really happen at the highest levels, which is the board level.

Amber Cabral 04:22

Now how do I know? Let me reframe that. Not so much. How do I know, but more so. Why is it important for me to be thinking about power, particularly as a person of color, particularly as a person of color who has perhaps had a bit of leadership experience, perhaps having the opportunity to climb the ranks. Why might a board seat be particularly important to me?

Conrad Woody 04:45

Well, a couple things. I’ll answer this in two ways, with respect to power, and then what it does as far as access, I think, when it comes to influence, it not only puts you in a position where you are. Responsible for the governance of a corporate enterprise, but also it opens you up to a level of relationships, information and experiences that many people in the United States, let alone black people, get to experience. I think, second Secondly, from the other side of the angle, you know this is something that you know is not designed for everyone, the higher you go the end of the funnel. But I think it’s critically important for people of color and people from diverse identities to understand what this is and determine if they want to fashion their life to pursue it. Why is

Amber Cabral 05:34

that, though, why do you think it’s critically important for them to think about it? Yeah,

Conrad Woody 05:38

I think again, this goes back to the information like these are the folks that are making decisions on the products that you consume Exactly. They’re making decision on what you wear. They’re making decisions on what you eat. And you know, really are the center of influence about the things that we experience in our day to day life. And so even if it is not for you, I think it’s important to be aware that these things exist exactly

Amber Cabral 06:03

so when we’re talking about access, because boards do not necessarily do the best at representation, especially our very well. You know, known corporate boards. Why is it, or what is it that an organization like what can, what can organizations do better to get more access, I will say to you know, diverse board candidates, be that women, be that people of color, be that generational differences. What are some of the things that organizations should be considering? Yeah,

Conrad Woody 06:31

I think number one, there has been some progress made since, absolutely, the murder of George Floyd. But that progress still remains, if you will. And so you know, my counsel to some of our clients and other leaders at the corporate board level is number one, be open to the concept because there’s a significant amount of research data and statistics that show that a diversity of thought and experience drive shareholder value. It limits the ability of tunnel thinking from a governor’s perspective, and it opens you up to prevent risk of making decisions that are not in alignment with the enterprise today and into the future. And so you know, organizations that are open to including people from different backgrounds, identities and perspectives typically do better from a financial and shareholder perspective, yes, absolutely.

Amber Cabral 07:22

I appreciate you highlighting you know the the diversity of perspective is also part of this, and you get that by diversifying identities. Honestly, you don’t have to look for a diverse perspective. Diverse people will bring that with them. So I love that you shared that. So if I’m, if I’m a candidate, if I, if I believe that I am interested in potentially joining a corporate board, which you and I have discussed this. What are some things that I should keep in mind, or what, what might I want to start doing or consider to help acquire some of the things you highlighted so, you know, thinking about my network, thinking about, you know, positioning myself to have access. What are some things that I should be doing as a potential board candidate?

Conrad Woody 08:07

Absolutely. Well, first, it’s understanding that the path could be long, and our choice, yes, so just important to say that out loud. I don’t want to sugarcoat the experience, if you will. So just number that as a baseline. But what comes up for me, Amber is number one, excellence is the floor you don’t access right unless you’re this level, if you are not excellent and you’re not exceptional at what you do. So you know, focusing on having an exceptional executive narrative. Secondly, being read in and educated on what Coco governance is, and so joining organizations like NACD and interacting with friends that may be on boards, it’s going to be really critical to understanding the state of play. I think number three is acquiring some governance experience, so sitting on nonprofit boards or sitting on community boards so you can know what it’s like to be in the chair. I think number four is really focusing intentionally on your brand image and thought leadership. So if you do want to go for a board, do people understand that you have the experience, and do they care what you have to say? Do you have a particular expertise that is accretive to the boardroom? And I think lastly, which is the most important, and you and I have discussed this, the quality of your relationship capital if you don’t know the right people, if you’re not passively influencing the hearts and minds of the stakeholders that make these decisions, is going to be really hard to find yourself in that swim lane. Hey, there,

Amber Cabral 09:38

if you’re listening and finding value in today’s episode, and want to add a couple tools to your toolbox. I’ve written a couple books that you might find useful. My first book, allies and advocates is to help you be able to show up as an ally or an advocate and to help create a more inclusive and equitable culture, whether that’s in your own life or in the workplace. My second book is a little different. It’s called. Help say more about that. What say more about that does is help you to push back advocate and actually challenge. It gives you tips, tools and language to help you navigate difficult discussions, whether that’s in your personal space or your workspaces. So if either of these tools sound like they might be useful for you, you can scroll down into the show notes and click the link and get your own copy of either allies and advocates or say more about that. Back to today’s episode. Yes, we’re definitely going to talk about networking, because I know that it’s a thing you care a lot about, and as do I and we do it a little bit differently, but still have some of the same ethos around it. But before I jump into that, I know that you have a personal goal, like you have a you have a purpose that you and I have discussed many times, and so I would like to kind of well, first, I want you to share what your purpose is, and then I’d like to just discuss with you what are some of the things that you’re doing to role model to create access to the purpose that you have set forth for yourself. Absolutely

Conrad Woody 11:00

well. Thank you for asking the question. You have had many conversations about this, and you know, my purpose is to help close the information and opportunity gaps for women and people of color. And the reason why I use those two pillars, Amber is number one, information is a lot of the reason why there’s an equity in the world. And so I’m fortunate to find myself in an area of professional life to where I have renewable information every day about the world of work. And so being in a position where I can share that information on how to design your career, how I can share information about compensation and how to maximize your pay and information, and on how to effectively compete and interview is really key. And then the second pillar is the opportunity so creating environments and networks that correct people access to executive level positions and roles, and then being able to provide resources and support to people that are on that journey is generally germane to my purpose, if you will. Yes,

Amber Cabral 12:06

so I want to, I want to dip into the networks piece. All right, specifically because you and I as friends, okay, I’ve been on this networking journey together. You are definitely, you know, probably one of the top two most well networked folks I know, all right, so I value you in my network for that reason. You know, it’s important to connect with folks like yourself who are well connected. But I would love for us to just kind of have a little bit of conversation around where folks you know can get started building some of the meaningful connections that you’ve built, that you’ve in some ways, help encourage me to build that can help open the opportunity, so that I can get access visibility opportunity, you know, information. You know, should I decide to go this or that way in my career or pursue a board seat? You know, I will be able to tap into my network to start to do that

Conrad Woody 12:57

absolutely. Well, number one, I think, is knowing yourself, yes, that is the base. I don’t think you can effectively build relationship capital or find things in common with others without knowing yourself, right? And so that is really key. I think number two is having a spirit of consistency and intentionality, right? You know, you know how we met, and we’ve stayed in touch for well over a decade, because we’ve been consistent, because we’ve been intentional. I think those are key pillars. Think thirdly, Amber is authenticity. You cannot fake it. You cannot fake it. You gotta bring yourself. And if those energies align, they will be accretive and a net positive. And lastly, it’s being strategic, right? You have to understand the best way to use and maximize your time. We only have so many hours that we are awake, and so finding places where you are have things in common with others, and then including them in your experience, and then having a curiosity and an authenticity to understand someone else’s experience. These are key strategies to building an effective and meaningful network over a long period of time,

Amber Cabral 14:12

right? So I’m going to zoom into some examples, all right, because you and I, being on the networking journey together, have given each other, some pretty robust advice. So if you’re okay with it, all right, I’m gonna share a couple things that you gave to me. One thing that you shared with me was that I needed to be a bit more deliberate about the types of connections I was making, and so over time, I intentionally started to tap some of the people in my network that I had built trust with who knew my work, or folks that I knew had seen my work and potentially would be open to a connection, and that has eventually led me to some meaningful relationships. Folks that are sitting on boards have had some experience that aligns with where I want to grow and learn, folks that potentially can. Help open some other doors for me as I’m thinking about the kind of power I’d like to have as I grow my career, right? But that’s because you told me to do that. Okay, there was a time where I was like, I don’t want to do that. I feel like I’m pretending I don’t even know these people. And the reason I bring that up is because one of the things you said was you have to be authentic. And I’m like, Well, I’m being authentic. And you said, but authentic doesn’t mean you all the time. And that was that was really important for me, because I had to figure out what parts of me belong in the spaces that I’m in. So I am myself, but that means that sometimes myself isn’t all of me in every space. And so I want to thank you for that, because you you well know that it has paid off on my end, and I am grateful to be able to extend my network to you now on your side, the conversation that you and I had around hobbies and being willing to be a little bit vulnerable around some of our interests. You care to share what you gleaned from our discussion. Hey, I hope you’re enjoying today’s episode of guilty privilege. My name is Amber Cabral and I wanted to share with you that I actually do this for a living. So if you’re interested in coaching or training or workshops or even a conversation like this one, you can reach out to me and my team by going to cabralco.com that website link is in the show notes, and we can work with you to create an experience, to bring conversations that are sometimes difficult to have to your workplace or to your team. Now, back to the show,

Conrad Woody 16:26

yeah, well, number one, thank you for the affirmation, and I’m glad to be on this journey with you. Yes. But with respect to hobbies, it’s a phrase that I use about the red thread. It’s, How can you share a piece of yourself with others. And something that is deeply meaningful and personal to me is being a supporter and a patron of the visual arts, right? And so, you know, this is something that I got into about three or four years ago, and it’s completely changed my life. Yes, and so being able to share my passion of the arts or be a little bit vulnerable to say that a lot of the things that have happened in my life is because my mom put me in front of piano at six o’clock at six years old. Yes, so being a musician and now being an art collector and sharing those pieces of yourself create commonality and create bonds and create similar interests, which really helps amplify and deepen relationships across all races, cultures, creeds and so on and so forth. Exactly something that’s really been really meaningful to me.

Amber Cabral 17:33

Yes, those hobbies are important. I’m so glad that you lean in. So since you are quite the art collector and you’ve infected me with the bug, okay, I’d like to talk to you a little bit about collecting. And so, you know, in that vein, can you share your perspective about, you know, perhaps, what equity might look like in the art world, particularly for those folks who are collecting. And then also, do you think it’s important, you know, for equity to be a consideration as a collector?

Conrad Woody 17:59

Well, you know, in my experience in the world as a collector and a supporter and a patron, what I’ve learned is that the entire industry sector is based upon lack of information. Absolutely, you walk yourself in the gallery, there’s no prices, there’s no information, there’s nothing exactly, and this interesting little subculture that wields a lot of wealth, class, power and information absolutely and so as I’ve gotten into it, I know that my role and my purpose is to share valuable information, and I do believe equity is important Amber, and this is the reason the art world has given me more than I’ve given it, oh, yeah. And the relationships, the learnings, the experience that I’ve had here and abroad, are paramount. And so as a person of color, it’s important for me to share this experience, to give someone agency to choose whether they want to be involved in this space, but it’s really important for those that are in the art community to be very helpful and meaningful and open about their experiences, to ensure that others have the opportunity to participate.

Amber Cabral 19:11

Yeah, you’ve actually done a really great job at that. And I say you infected me because you did. You had a gathering, and I was invited, and there was a nice, you know, gallerist there who was willing to, you know, if, if I can ABC, it for us, you know, so we kind of understood, you know, why it was important for us to be thinking about collecting, why I was, you know, a contributor to wealth, how to decide, you know, if you were even interested in a piece. And, you know, all of those things I learned a lot just from that one meeting. And then we stumbled into an event together, and I fell in love with my first piece of art, you know, and I was just like, Wow, am I gonna buy this? I can’t believe it, right? So I love that it’s something that you are connected to, but that you also it connects to your purpose, right? It connects to your purpose. And I. It’s a good thing to make sure people understand that you can do many things and they can still connect to your objective, your personal goals around, you know, demystifying or absolving inequity. You know, those things can still be connected, and it can show up many ways. And so you did mention, again, networks, right? And I think another point on that is that your hobbies can help your networks as well, and not just building, but also when you are engaged in said hobby, right? That can help to create some connectivity too. Oh,

Conrad Woody 20:34

absolutely. And it’s thinking about things that are uniquely and personal to you, right? And so probably about maybe a couple of months ago, and The Gallerist was Stevenson Dunn, and he opened up my world, and I’m on this path because of him. And, you know, being able to gather people around these similar interests just a couple of months ago, had about, you know, 3035 people at my home to talk about the power of art collective, right? And so connecting people around a similar interest is something that’s a net positive for you. And just in about a couple of weeks, I chair the board of step Afrika, which is the only American dance company dedicated to art of stepping, which is percussive dance. We have our annual gaela, and I got 10 people coming with me to see our show. And so people enjoy the arts, and people enjoy dance. And so if you can be a little bit vulnerable to share valuable information about yourself, it helps build deep and meaningful and personal relationships.

Amber Cabral 21:40

Absolutely, I love that. Okay, so I have a bonus question. Okay, good. So the podcast is called guilty privilege, and the reason I call it guilty privilege is because I recognize that people can sometimes feel guilty about the privileges that they have, or sometimes people have no awareness of their own privilege. But really what privilege does, as we’ve demonstrated in this conversation, is it creates access. If you are sharing, if you are putting yourself in the position to open doors for others, you can actually use privilege for lots of powerful things. So my question for you is, what is one privilege that you have that you refuse to feel guilty about? That’s

Conrad Woody 22:20

great question. Amber, that’s a good bonus question that didn’t prepare for it. If you give me five seconds, I think the privilege that I don’t apologize for is having access to these extremely, you know, rare spaces, you know, you know, being able to and I, and I take it with a great amount of gratitude to engage with board directors and engage with, you know, publicly traded CEOs and people in the political space, not only because the learning that I get from it, but also the things that I can pass down and share with others. And so I am unapologetic that, you know, I’m able to be placed in these environments and spaces because, frankly, Amber, I’m using it for the greater good,

Amber Cabral 23:08

right? So, right? And that’s what we want us folks to use our privilege for, indeed. So I appreciate that, and thank you for extending it to me Absolutely. Thanks for joining me on the podcast today. Wonderful. I’m glad to be with you. All right. Thank you. You.