SUMMARY KEYWORDS

luxury, diversity, people, privilege, brand, dei, inclusion, equitable, feel, organization, bias, treat, retail, logo, financial situation, mitigate, moet, supplier diversity, diverse, marketing

SPEAKERS

Corey Smith, Amber Cabral, Micheal Price

Amber Cabral 00:00

Three. Privilege is all around you. It shows up in your clothes, where you live, the places you frequent, your network capital, and even how you spend your money. It’s useless until you recognize it. So it’s time to stop feeling guilty and figure out how to use your privilege to make an impact. Welcome to guilty privilege. Hey, y’all welcome to another episode of guilty privilege. Today we have the privilege of talking to Corey Smith. He is the head of dei at LVMH, and we’re going to talk about what that means, in addition to what all of the brands are, what luxury looks like, how we are being responsible with our inclusion and equity, even though we are still talking luxury today. So I’m looking forward to this conversation. We should go ahead and get started.

Corey Smith 00:55

It’s great to be here. First of all, thanks for the invitation. I’m Corey Smith. I lead diversity, equity and inclusion for LVMH for North America. LVMH is the largest luxury conglomerate on the planet. I’ve been in the DEI space for well over 20 years. Most people know that before LVMH, I ran diversity and inclusion for Major League Baseball. Before that, I was at NBC Universal, so in the entertainment world, and it goes back even further, consumer products, education, manufacturing, technology, picking industry, I’ve done it.

Amber Cabral 01:32

Yes, I love the diversity of your experience in diversity. So for the people, can you tell us what LVMH stands for ah

Corey Smith 01:41

for sure. LVMH is Louis Vuitton, Moet Hennessy, yeah,

Amber Cabral 01:45

yes. And I like that you you told us how to say it correctly. So one more time,

Corey Smith 01:49

Louis Vuitton, Moet Hennessy, pronounce the T in Moet, please, yes, please. That’s right. Yeah, no. So again, we’re the with the largest luxury conglomerate. We own 75 brands across six main business verticals, so wines and spirits, fashion and leather goods, watches and jewelry, beauty and skincare, selective retailing and travel and hospitality. Yeah, so, yeah, everybody’s heard of all of our brands. They just don’t know that they’re all owned by one company,

Amber Cabral 02:25

right, right? And some of those companies are in competition with each other, which is also a little mind blowing,

Corey Smith 02:29

for sure, for sure. I mean, you know, from the Louis vuittons to the diors to the fendis all the way over to our champagnes, you have moet and Don Perry on and Valve Clico and Krug, yeah, they are all operating kind of in the same space. We like to consider ourselves one big, happy family, but you know, there’s some sibling rivalry going,

Amber Cabral 02:49

Yeah, okay, so it sounds like a real family,

Corey Smith 02:52

for sure. Sibling rivalries include dysfunction and disruptiveness, but again, it’s all it’s all under one umbrella, and it’s important for people understand that?

Amber Cabral 03:00

Yeah, I love that. So leading, I imagine, for the biggest luxury conglomerate, leading the DEI space, for that probably feels really empowering sometimes, and then other times maybe like a really big undertaking. Can you talk to me about how you kind of maneuver that?

Corey Smith 03:17

I mean, again, you know, the portfolio is diverse in and of itself. We have a saying that we are diverse by nature, simply the way we are set up, right? We have so many different types of companies operating across so many different business verticals, that diversity is just kind of literally our business model. Now, how we translate that to our people and our corporate culture and our way of being. That’s kind of where I come in and kind of step in and try to really create a corporate culture of inclusiveness, where folks are celebrated, valued for their difference. You know, we adopt it when it comes to our businesses, but how we enact it as it relates to our workforces is the challenge, for sure

Amber Cabral 04:06

Yeah, absolutely. So I love retail. Most of my clients are in retail. When I started and stepped out on my own, doing consulting, retail was really the first business that sucked me up, probably because I used to work at Walmart, biggest retailer in the history of the world, right? So, so because of that, like I’ve just I have a love for it. I understand the environment, but it’s also a really tough environment. When you are talking about being inclusive, being equitable, creating spaces that feel accessible to people, can you talk to me a little bit about how you navigate that piece of it? Because I think retail is a little bit unique and bringing it to life, particularly, you know, in the conglomerate that is LVMH. Mh, I am sure, you know, there’s some elements of that that play a part too.

Corey Smith 04:52

Yeah. I mean, our strategy around diversity, equity and inclusion is built on three pillars. The first is our people. I. VMH has a belief statement that people make the difference, and so how we recruit and then retain talent, and how we do so in an equitable way that that leads to inclusion is something that we’re really, really hyper focused on. And you know, whether we’re talking about how we write our job descriptions so that they aren’t, you know, opposing to gender or sexual orientation or any of those things, all the way up to the resume review process, like we all know, you can, you can look at somebody’s resume and think you know a lot about them, but it might not actually be telling you what you think you know right. And then all the way up to the interview and selection process. And so we try to make sure that there is a level of inclusion in that process, trying to mitigate bias, try to make it as objective as possible. Then you get to the retention side, because once you hire people, then you got to figure out how to keep them. Right? Keeping people is probably harder than hiring. I actually say Right. And so that’s really about the corporate culture. And how do we make sure people feel valued and seen and acknowledged and feel as if they’re being heard and and or if they’re not being heard, that their only thing that they attribute that too, is their gender or their ethnicity or those types of things, right? So people is something that we really focus on, and that’s everything, again, from employee resource groups, literally, to platforms that and organizations that we’ve partnered with to help us write more inclusively around things like job descriptions. The second pillar is our business pillar, and that’s really focused on supply chain, supplier diversity, which is actually how I got my start in diversity and inclusion, making sure that we’re tapping into the economic growth, the stability of diverse entrepreneurs, because they lead to the innovation that we then need in our process. Right? The other great thing about supplier diversity, specifically for LVMH, is we own our entire supply chain, from soup to nuts. So the grapes that turn into the champagnes and the wines we own, the vineyards, yes, the the flowers that turn into the perfumes we own, the gardens, nice we own everything from soup to nuts. So if we bring you into any component of that supply chain that we treat you as a value partner. Yeah, that’s the family. Yeah. So making sure that diverse businesses are a part of that network is something that’s really important to us, and we’ve rolled out our supply diversity program here in the US, but it’s absolutely our intention to make sure that it goes global as well, and then the last piece of the of the DI pillars are, is brand. So people business brand, when we talk about brand, that’s where retail starts to come into play, because how we view brand as anything that’s external facing, anything that’s customer facing. So that’s our marketing and our ad campaigns, right? Who are we choosing to be our brand ambassadors? And are we choosing them on a diverse enough scale? Our social media, I tell all of our brands, if I can go to your Instagram page and I can scroll 10 posts and I don’t see any diversity, we got a problem that, right? But it’s also the in store experience, right? That retail component, how do we make someone feel when they walk into one of our stores. Yeah, right. Are we inviting them in? Are we saying welcome, or are you being racially profiled? Are you being followed around by security? Are you treating you as if you don’t belong here? Yeah, that’s such a critical component of our brand, right? When somebody then sees one of our logos, here’s one of our company names, it’s gonna dial back to well, how did they make me feel when I walked into that store? And I don’t care if you’re there for a $200 keychain or a $50,000 handbag, that’s right. It shouldn’t matter, right, right? The experience should be the same, right? And so, and what I really try to explain to our brands is, look how you treat somebody at that $200 price point is going to determine whether they come back. That’s $50,000

Amber Cabral 09:07

right? Am I going to spend it exactly?

09:09

That’s correct. And so, you know, all of those things are really how we look at it. Some of our brands have done some really great things. Sephora actually wrote a white paper. It’s public, it’s open for the world to see on how to mitigate racial bias in retail. Yes. And then, from that white paper, they then created a charter that a lot of retail organizations have signed on how we want to mitigate bias specifically in the retail stores, because we know what that looks like. We some people of color, for example, you walk into certain stores and their products are locked up behind glass case, right, right? Yeah, where everybody else’s are not exactly, depending on what you’re there for, you have to go ask for help to retrieve it and and so there’s tons of inequity in retail that we are actually kind of at the forefront Sephora, specifically, at the forefront of trying to make sure that we’re mitigating as well. Just possible.

Amber Cabral 10:00

I love that, yeah. So I always tell people that inclusion isn’t everybody all at the same time. And so I love that you use the example of a $200 keychain or a $50,000 item, or if you’re in Sephora and it’s a five bucks item, or it’s a 40 bucks item, for sure, because everyone’s not shopping for the same things. And so what’s really great about retail, even though I agree, sometimes it gets a little hard to make it feel equitable just because you’re selling things right, when you’re selling things, that automatically puts you a little bit at an advantage because you’re trying to make money, right? So it doesn’t necessarily feel equitable from that standpoint, but I do think, given the thought of a the diversity of your products, how we’re marketing them, how you feel about it. And like you said, the people you know, that’s a huge part of what inclusion really is talking about. It doesn’t have to mean everybody, all at once is going to get the same thing. And so I love how you explain that. I want to talk a little bit about the word luxury, though. I do think that the word luxury kind of connotes a bit of privilege, just in and of itself. How do you consider how might you consider luxury? Well, I don’t want to let me frame it this way. Would you consider luxury a privilege, a necessity, or a bit of both?

Corey Smith 11:19

That’s a great question. I think it’s a bit of both. And here’s what I mean by that. Look, I think the word I like to use because what people usually do is they attach the word luxury with the word exclusivity. I am really trying to shift the narrative that luxury is actually aspirational. And what I mean by that is we all aspire to be more, have more, want more in our lives. I don’t care who you are. That’s true. Billionaires want more billions, and so we all aspire, and that’s just part of evolution and growth. Who you are at 30 is not the same person you are at 16, and who you are at 40 is not going to be the same person you are at 30. You evolve, you change, you grow, and hopefully, on that journey, you have higher and higher aspirations that you set for yourself. And so whether you came to luxury because of privilege, which you know is generational wealth or legacy, or whatever your thing is that got you here, or whether you came to it through your own personal evolution, your own growth, your own economic and financial situation changing, both of those are aspirational. Now, with that said, we recognize that there’s some gaps between how you get there, whether you got there, clawing and scratching and had to build it and grow, get it yourself, or it was passed on to you by, you know, maybe somebody in your lineage that had to claw and scratch and grow and build it themselves, right? I think the thing for me is, regardless of how you got here again, when you walk into one of our doors, as long as we’re saying, Hey, welcome, we’re glad you’re here. How you got here doesn’t matter. Yeah, right. You are now in this world of luxury, and we should treat you as such, yes,

Amber Cabral 13:33

even if I’m browsing,

Corey Smith 13:34

even if you’re browsing, yeah, even if you’re browsing, because, again, something piqued your interest that got you in this right? And I need to treat you like you’re the most important person in the world when you walk in this door. Because, again, what we know is, as you aspire to more, and as you gain more and your financial situation improves, your loyalty to who made you feel good, that is going to be kind of locked in, and you’ll come back for more again, whether you started off at the low end items, some entry I don’t care what your entry point is, that’s right. Stay with us. That’s right. But that’s all going to be dependent on how we made you feel,

Amber Cabral 14:14

exactly. So I want to just kind of touch on that I had the, you know, fortunate privilege of being able to walk through a couple of your brands in Vegas. So, you know, right there the crystal shops, you know, they have all the high end brands. And so one of the things I loved about the store, specifically the LV store, was that it was so warm and colorful. So I think sometimes we think of LV because we see it out in the world as these very specific patterns and prints and leather goods. But what I saw when I walked in was art. I saw a lot of creativity in terms of how the displays were laid out. So to your point about trying to create that warmth, I wasn’t shopping at that moment. I was browsing, but I definitely made a short list after going through because of how I felt. So yeah. Yes, there’s something to that, for sure, absolutely. So here’s another thing I think is important to talk about, especially especially as we think about people of color and doing the work that we do, you know, where we are interested in trying to make sure that we’re creating an equitable experience, regardless of where folks are in terms of their identity, sometimes luxury is seen as a validator. It’s sometimes a badge of honor, you know, in some communities, and can some, in some ways, kind of create a little bit of disconnection sometimes, or maybe even a sense of community or connection. I’m really interested in your thoughts about the influence of luxury on culture in that way, in terms of, like, that validation aspect, or that, that cultural connectivity. You know, we know what it feels like when someone shows up with a new bag. You know, in our friend groups and things like that, like, what are your thoughts about how that impacts the cultural experience?

15:53

You know that there are the communities that historically have been limited in their economic growth,

Amber Cabral 16:02

that’s right,

Corey Smith 16:03

right? That’s just the fact.

Amber Cabral 16:04

It is a fact,

Micheal Price 16:05

um, systemically limited, like we know all the things that’s right, the limits, right? Um, so again, when you get to this point in your, in your in your life, where, if you have the good fortune in your financial and economic situation, changes, hell yeah. Go celebrate. Yes, right? There’s nothing wrong with celebration. I agree with you. You evolve, you grow, you the come up. That’s right, when you get the come up, you should go celebrate. Yes, totally fine with that, come celebrate with the LVMH brands. Yes, please, right, like I’m here for all of that. To your point, though, I think when the reason you’re doing it is less about celebration and the fact that you’ve been able to shift and change your financial situation in the face of all these systemic limitations, when you’re doing it solely to seek other people’s approval, yes, right, looking for validation, right? That’s a different story. And look, I think with the financial limitations have also come an emotional stress on these same communities, right? Because you don’t feel valued, you don’t feel seen, right? You feel invisible, right? And so again, when your financial situation changes, and you can go buy these things, then it’s like, then you want to go get the one with the biggest logo on it, the biggest brand on it. Because what you’re actually saying is, not only has my financial situation changed, but look at me. That’s right. Let me show you that, because you haven’t felt seen, right? So it’s the combination of the lack of economic empowerment, and this idea that we’ve been invisible, that when we when the come up happens, it’s like, bow, give me everything, yeah, with all the bling, all the logos, all of this, all of that, so I can go show the world my status has changed. That’s right. There’s a danger in that. There is right. I think needing external validation and not having that own your own self esteem and your own confidence in yourself, then you’re always seeking it and you’re always chasing it. Yeah, right, and so, so, which is opposed to, and so that’s how you get to that logo mania stuff in the industry. We spend a lot of time talking about logo mania, because it’s really defined by a particular community. That’s right? And if you don’t understand everything that we’re talking about, the limitations on your economic growth, right, the emotional stresses of feeling invisible, yes, then you don’t understand why people are walking in the store and say, give me the one with the biggest logo. That’s right, exactly right. You don’t understand it if you didn’t come from that. That’s right, which is the polar opposite of the other side, kind of the privilege that’s right, right, which I’ve always had it, yes, this is normal to me. So I don’t need the one with the logo. Actually, I operate from a place of, if you know, you know, you know, you know, right.

Amber Cabral 19:23

Quiet luxury,

Corey Smith 19:24

quiet luxury,

Amber Cabral 19:25

that’s right,

Corey Smith 19:25

which is like there’s been a huge resurgence in quiet there’s not a logo on it, nothing, not a brand name. You know, if you know, you know, right, right, right? And so if, if that’s what the industry is used to again, this idea of generational were wealth and and value, where I always had this. I don’t need to prove anything to you. I don’t need your validation. I walk in this every day and and everybody that I hang with, they know because they wearing it. Too, right? And our parents know, and our friends know. And so logomania gives the other the quiet luxury crowd, kind of like, oh, oh, you guys are new to this. Yes, right? Yes, um, again, for me, I’m indifferent, because for me, what I care about, for LVMH, is whichever one of those you are. Again, when you walk into our store, I need to treat you like you’re a VIP. That’s right. I don’t care if you’re here to buy all the logos I don’t hear. I don’t care if you’re here to buy all the quiet luxury. Either way. Welcome. We see you. We value you. Come on in

Amber Cabral 20:43

That’s right. So what I love about this conversation is two things. It doesn’t take away from the fact that we are selling a thing and we are going to sell it equitably. We are going to make sure we are making it available to you if you want this version or that version, tall or short, you know, logos or not, we are making it available to you, which is what we really are looking for and encouraging when we are talking about being diverse, inclusive and equitable. I want to make sure that when I want one, I can go get the one I want, right? I think sometimes what happens is that this conversation, which is why I wanted to have you on the podcast, is that people think that, like, luxury shouldn’t exist, because if everyone can’t have it, then you know it shouldn’t be for everyone, and that’s why I always remind people, like, inclusion doesn’t mean everybody all the time. It means that in this space, when you come here, you’re gonna have an experience the same as someone else will have. Now, you may not have the same dollars to spend or have the same background or live in the same place, but when you experience us, we’re going to create an experience that’s going to feel universally equitable. And that’s the goal, whether you’re logomania or not,

Corey Smith 21:51

yeah, no, I mean perfect, perfectly set, like everything isn’t for everyone, right? And I always use the analogy of like movies, no one’s asking Martin Scorsese to make a rom com Exactly. Yeah. We know what he does, right? Yeah. He has his lane. He knows what he types of movies he can make, saying like, pick us, pick and pick a producer, pick a director. They have their lane, right, right? And so the same applies to us. It’s we make high end luxury items.

Amber Cabral 22:23

That’s right,

Corey Smith 22:25

full stop,

Amber Cabral 22:25

correct.

Corey Smith 22:27

If you want some, we got it, come on in, correct. And if this is not your thing, then that’s okay, then that’s okay.

Amber Cabral 22:33

You’ll still enjoy browsing. We will make you feel good. I chair an organization called brown girls do ballet. She’s another guest on another episode, and it’s brown girls. And there are many times where people say, but what about brown boys? And we’re like, brown boys need support as well, but our focus is brown girls. And so it’s the same thing there, where you do get to have a choice. I think we have to be very careful, which is why I wanted to talk with you about this, about the idea that everybody should have everything at the same time. It’s just not feasible. We do get to have difference, we do get to have luxury, we do get to have our preferences. We do get to have all of those things. And that doesn’t mean that you are being exclusive or evil or shutting anyone out. It is still a part of the strategy.

Corey Smith 23:17

I mean, that’s actually counterintuitive to diversity, right? Like diversity is you are unique because of your uniqueness, yes, and the things that your experiences and your characteristics and who you are, your cultural background. If I treated everybody the same, yes, that yes, we’d be bored, right? I say it all the time. There’s a difference between equity and equality, that’s right. And those two are, equality is the outcome of equity, right? But you can’t start with equality. You can’t start with treating everybody the same. You’re not going to get the same results

Amber Cabral 23:50

Exactly, exactly, right? Okay, so I want to ask you about dei like budgets, because we know budgets are a big conversation right now. Everybody is kind of going through this, you know, shift with our economics changing and all of that. So dei costs dollars, but it isn’t just about the dollars. And so I would love to just kind of get some perspective from you about some other ways to keep Diversity, Equity and Inclusion at the top of mind, or what maybe you do in your role to kind of make sure that it’s still in focus, even when the budget dollars are shifting.

Corey Smith 24:26

Yeah, no, great. Well, let me talk about budget first before I move to the other things you do in lieu of budget. Yeah, you’re right. Dei, as a department, as a function in an organization that budget is never enough. It should never, it’s never but what I will say is, you know, I use other people’s money, right? I use procurements money to help with supplier diversity, right? I use marketing’s dollars to help with anything experiential or event. Driven, right? It’s really how you tap into the rest of the organization to actually invite them into the DEI experience. We can’t do this alone as a dei practitioner, the same way I can’t solely use my budget. That’s right, right? And so how you engage other areas of the business, and how you engage other departments to really drive the mission of dei is critical. With that, though, you then have to make sure you’re tracking to their ROI, not just your own, right, because now they’re engaged, now they’re invested, literally financially invested. You also then have to make sure you’re giving them the impact that they need to see. I think impact in any organization shows up in a variety of ways, right? It is. It is about, how do you make the workforce more diverse? So for example, at LVMH, one of the first things I did was put in a goal for the organization to increase the number of people of color in executive position? Yes, and we set a target, we set a timeline in which we want to see that shift. The reason I wanted to do it at the executive level is diversity begets diversity. That’s right. So if you put more women at the top, they’re going to hire more women. And put more people of color at the top, they’re going to hire more people of color doing it at the lower ends of the organization is important, but it doesn’t have the same impact, that’s right, and trickle down effect as if you do it at the higher ends of the organization. So that was really key. But again, it’s really about explaining to people this work doesn’t only fall on my shoulders because I have the title correct, right? I talk to our chief marketing officers. I talk to our heads of HR. I’m talking to legal and finance about all these things that impact their area to see how we can improve it. So how do you impact workforce? How do you shift corporate culture? Again, what is the marketing strategy and the optics on what marketing looks like and how we’re going out with our storytelling and what we tell the world. Because the other disconnect for me is marketing is operating over here, doing a bunch of storytelling. What I really try to explain to them is the images and storytelling that you put out into the world actually impacts who would potentially apply for a job if you don’t see yourself reflected in our brands. Why would you even think you could work there? So marketing and HR are actually very connected. Think that they’re not because they’re very different functions in the organization, but I’m like marketing is doing all the storytelling. That’s right again, if I can go out right, yeah, right, that’s how I’m gonna do all my research. And so I know marketing is, in theory, about the product, but it also affects our workforce as well. So those conversations you know have to be intentional around, what is our storytelling, what is our brand, what are we trying to communicate to the world? And by doing that, it also highlights what we actually care about.

Amber Cabral 28:10

That’s right, that’s right. I also really love that you highlighted that you’re focused on bringing in folks in executive roles, because you’re right. You know, women are going to hire women, people of color are going to hire people of color. And this goes even for other communities. Disabled folks are going to hire disabled folks. Because whether we like it or not, that’s similarity bias. It’s a thing you know. I, as a person who rides a peloton, I’m going to know more people who ride peloton about the network exactly, and so you’re getting access to that network. And one of the things I always encourage people around that is, yes, educate people that the biases exist, but one of the key things about bias is that you can’t turn it off like it’s happening, no? And so you have something you can get rid of. Yeah, you’ll never get rid of it. And so what you want to do is kind of engineer an environment that helps you to create the kind of equity. It helps you to create the diversity that you’re looking for, instead of trying to get people to change just their minds?

Corey Smith 29:00

Yeah, no, I, when I we do a ton of unconscious bias training in the organization, and exactly what you said, bias is not something you can get rid of. What you can do is mitigate the negative impact that’s bias can have, but bias can have a ton of positive impact as well, absolutely right. And so it’s just understanding that,

Amber Cabral 29:19

and we benefit from the positive impact when we see brand placement, right? Okay, so I have another question. Years ago in my career, one of my leaders told me that the best way for me to advance was for me to think about what my leader kind of had on her mind, what kept her up at night. And I am curious, from your perspective, if there were one thing that you could share as a leader in the DEI space, you know, is there something that you wish everyone knew about dei that you think would make your job a little bit easier?

Corey Smith 29:53

I’ve already said it, that it’s everybody’s job, yes, not just mine, right? It’s, it’s something that you. What everybody can work on every single day, and be very intentional about how you’re going to change a corporate culture and make it more inclusive and still make money. People try to treat those two things as if they’re not connected, right? But they are 100% connected, and so, again, I don’t care what your function is. I have people all the time. They’re like, Oh, I would love to get into DNI. I want to make a career transition. I’m like, nope, the best thing you can do is stay where you are and do the work from there. That’s right, right. I need you in marketing. I need you in legal. I need you wherever you are. I need you there. If you’re that passionate about it, then affect change from where you are. That’s right. And so you know, most people, they go about their day, they’ve got their work on their desk, and they’re plugging away. And every now and then, you know, they’ve got DNI sitting in a box somewhere off to the side. No, go, go, pull something out of the box and sprinkle it on their work, right? And I’m like, No, take the whole damn box, turn it upside down on your desk and mix it in with what you’re doing every single day. It’s It’s unfortunate that you know most organizations, DNI is only a priority in terms in times of crisis or in times of some sort of external pressure. That’s right, if you make it, if it’s intentional, and you’re making it a part of your every day, then the outside forces shouldn’t matter. Just you’re actually proactive. You can mitigate a lot of those outside forces instead of being reactive to them.

Amber Cabral 31:32

Yeah, I agree. Totally agree. Totally agree. As a person who works in dei the thing I wish is that more people would not feel like it’s a thing they have to go into, that you can do it where you are. So exactly, totally agree. So the show is called guilty privilege, okay? And so the reason it’s called that is because I think people have a tendency to feel guilty about their privilege, or they have no awareness that they have privilege at all. And so I am, you know, and we’ve kind of touched on this in our conversation, aware that when you have privilege, the goal is to extend it, you know. How do I make sure that others have access to that? So with that, I’d love to end our conversation with an answer to one question, which is, what is one privilege that you have that you refuse to feel guilty about?

Corey Smith 32:11

Wow, you didn’t give me this one to prepare for.

Amber Cabral 32:14

I totally did. I think it was stuck in the top somewhere,

Corey Smith 32:17

um, I don’t know. I’ve been afforded a lot of great things in my life, right? And to your point, you do sometimes have some survivors remorse, like I, I came up and, you know, some of my guys were unable to come with me and, and, yeah, you, you feel some kind of way about that, but I also know that I’m representing them in the best way possible. Yeah, so I don’t ever apologize for, you know, having had a great education. I don’t ever apologize just for being black excellence every day, all day I walk in that, you know, head held high, and I’m actually, to your point trying to pass it on. You know, I’ve got, I’ve got three beautiful girls, and I’m raising them to be independent and fierce and unapologetic and Nah, you’re not, don’t cower or feel that you are not entitled to something simply because somebody else thinks that you’re not. Right. So, so this idea of independence and entitlement is something that I refuse to ever, ever give up. I work hard. You deserve to be here.

Amber Cabral 33:30

That’s right. That’s right. Well, thank you for coming on the program today. All right, good. It was fun for me. Too. Great. Chat, absolutely. All right. You